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FatherConfessor FatherConfessor rating
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28-Jul-02, 11:16 PM (PST)
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"Psychological Roots of BDSM"
 
An interesting thread has been forming around penis denial. A couple of men have met the challenge and started posting their real feelings. But the domme's are oddly quiet.

So before that other thread locks up (also, people are getting nasty over there), I thought I'd start a fresh thread on this topic of anger between domme's and Redbook guys.

So please, let's delve into the emotional issues underlying the basic hostility. Let's start with this exercise, just finish the following statement --

"I apologize if I hurt your feelings. I think that the reason I am angry with dommes/subs recently is..."

Let's see what happens.

FC

--
"All we are saying, is give sex a chance..."

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Psychological Roots of BDSM [View All], FatherConfessor, 11:16 PM, 28-Jul-02, (0)  
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dbcooper
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29-Jul-02, 02:15 AM (PST)
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1. "RE: Psychological Roots of BDSM"
In response to message.0
 
   I have been watching the evolution of this new section of redbook with interest. However, I don't know how much input you are EVER going to get from many dommes. Just as on the strip club forum one dancer seems to think that EVERYONE reads redbook, I have a feeling that many SF dommes aren't aware of redbook nor do they care to get sucked into yet ANOTHER online forum. I could be wrong, but it's just my .02 as to why more dommes don't post on here.

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sojo sojo rating
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29-Jul-02, 05:34 PM (PST)
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2. "RE: Psychological Roots of BDSM"
In response to message.0
 
I am not sure why you would expect any doms to reply to this thread. I am not aware of any problems I have in relation to my penis and the doms that I have seen (including for anal play) seem to me to be pretty much in control of whatever "anger" issues they are supposed to be struggling with. This thread seems to venture into "when did you stop beating your wife" type of discussion.

I think you are projecting your own "issues" into this one. The concept of whether or not doms will do more in the area of "sex" does not immediately segue into "penis envy" or anything related. It could be that they are, as Ms Alyssa contends, just happy with what they are doing and see no reason to change. I don't agree with their stand but I don't know why I have to assume that they are disfunctional because of it.

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AnonMon AnonMon rating
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30-Jul-02, 11:49 AM (PST)
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3. "RE: Psychological Roots of BDSM"
In response to message.0
 
   Hey FatherConfessor,

Just wanted you to know that after I unloaded to you, I felt angry (a lot angrier than I thought I was), and now I feel much better. And more understanding and even loving to these poor misguided domme's who I believe are inadvertantly falling under the spell of John Ashcroft. (Again, I'm just teasing.)

This thread looks like a dead horse, because honestly, most domme's are really much less enlightened than they think they are.

So thanks for your efforts.

Anon

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gds_Juliette gds_Juliette rating
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30-Jul-02, 12:41 PM (PST)
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4. "RE: Psychological Roots of BDSM"
In response to message.3
 
*SARCASM ALERT

Most doms are so unenlightened that they realize this is a lame ass thread & replying will only put it back on the top.

I don't realize this because I am a dumb $$ grubbing 'ho.

*END OF SARCASM

*This sarcasm alert has been provided by the Society Against Cruelty to the Sarcasm Impaired. The mission of SACSI is to bring greater awareness to the plight of the Sarcasm Impaired. Studies have shown the Sarcasm Impaired to be at increased risk for sudden blood pressure surges, which can lead to serious health problems including heart attack and stroke. Sarcasm Impairment is a disorder which manifests as a predisposition to take on-line bulletin boards far to seriously, accepting every statement as absolute truth &/or a personal attack despite the anonymous nature of a BBS. Further information and donations gratefully accepted at http://www.get_a_life.com/

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justjoe justjoe rating
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30-Jul-02, 12:48 PM (PST)
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5. "touche"
In response to message.4
 
Pretty funny, but I think FC had a right idea here. But unfortunately, no domme's are willing to be real about their feelings. Just cold, sarcastic, etc. I have seen several guys make the first step, but the reaction has been pretty brutal.

Instead of attacking, why don't you try to be open for once?

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gds_Juliette gds_Juliette rating
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30-Jul-02, 01:12 PM (PST)
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6. "re: touche"
In response to message.5
 
If you re-read the posts (with sarcasm dectector set on high), I think you will find that the Doms were quite clear about their feelings. They don't feel they are sex negative. They have active personal sex lives. It's simply that their professional boundaries are No Sex.

Why they *MAY* have an occasional cranky post is because so many boys won't take "no" for an answer & because this topic comes up over & over & over & over.

The topic has been discussed & rehashed. Can't we just let it go? You can find FS BDSM through referrals from your fellow RBers. If that's what you want, go get it! No one said, "You can't ever have that" or “It’s wrong to have that” or “I would never ever do that”. They just said "I am not going to do that with YOU".

Reminds me of that old joke about the difference between a slut & bitch. A slut will sleep with everyone. A bitch will sleep with everyone but you…

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SFgambler
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30-Jul-02, 07:37 PM (PST)
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7. "another old joke"
In response to message.6
 
   Reminds me of the old joke about an old billionaire at a cocktail party. He asks a pretty, young woman if she would have sex with him for a million dollars. She says yes. He then asks her if she would have sex with him for a hundred dollars. She says, "What do you think I am, a prostitute?". He replies, "We've already determined that, I'm just trying to find out your price".

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BigWilly BigWilly rating
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01-Aug-02, 03:47 AM (PST)
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8. "RE: re: touche"
In response to message.6
 
   So, which one are you? A bitch or a slut?

That reminds me of yet another joke - what's the difference between a slut and a ho? Oh, about $300.

Well, since I've been at home busy worshipping my own penis because no one else will, I've had some more time to think about this issue and have come to what I can only call "Big Willy's Theory of Relativity". I worked this out the other night with a calculator and a six-pack of Heineken.

It goes like this: whether or not you feel like you got ROB'ed by going to a no-extras domme, is all relative to what your expectations are. Thus, when I go to a no-extras domme, I'm not going to feel like I got ROB'ed since I didn't expect anything (well, except for the condom requirement for self-service).

I think the reason no dommes have responded yet to this thread, besides being a trite topic, is that they're DOMMES? Duh! Of course they're not going to respond to a male request to explain themselves.

The only problem I have (besides the condom requirement for self-service - I mean really, this seems to dispense with a male's inalienable right to touch his own bare penis) is this whole dom/sub labelling they try to do. I don't want a "dom" as I want to have control over what happens in the session (and if you try to control it they call it "topping from the bottom"), but I don't want a "sub" as I want the provider to do things to me like strap-on stuff, transformations, spanking, etc., all things that a domme would normally do. And I want some form of sex, even if it's only an HJ, that neither a no-extras domme or sub would do.

I see BDSM as foreplay more than an end in itself, although there are certainly quite a few people, both male and female, who are quite happy not to have sex as part of their session. They can more easily separate sex from BDSM. The problem with going to full-service escorts is that their BDSM skills might not be up to snuff, or they might not want to do it at all, or they might not be equipped, etc. You get the idea.

Oh well, it's all good. No point in lamenting. As long as I've got a stable full of perverted, kinky, money-grubbing ho's who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty, I'll be a happy camper.

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FatherConfessor FatherConfessor rating
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01-Aug-02, 10:42 PM (PST)
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9. "As the resident therapist..."
In response to message.8
 
I pronounce you cured.

Actually, I'm kind of disappointed by the domme's. None of them seemed to want to play at a higher level.

Well, this thread is dead.

FC

--
"All we are saying, is give sex a chance..."

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BigWilly BigWilly rating
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02-Aug-02, 04:03 AM (PST)
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10. "RE: As the resident therapist..."
In response to message.9
 
   It was a noble attempt Father, but I don't think you'd ever be likely to get at the REAL underlying issues of why someone becomes a pro domme in a forum like this.

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AnonMon AnonMon rating
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02-Aug-02, 12:32 PM (PST)
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11. "The Domination Mafia?"
In response to message.0
 
   LAST EDITED ON 02-Aug-02 AT 12:37 PM (PDT)

LAST EDITED ON 02-Aug-02 AT 12:34 PM (PDT)

I continue to get hate mail from no sex domme's who simply don't get my point. Please stop.

I'm trying to be nice, and integrate your point of view, girls. But you have to meet me half way, okay?

--

Also, all sorts of guys are writing me, asking for referrals to sex-positive domme's. Please please, I'm only into this at an intellectual level. My only two recommendations are Danika and Lady Atria, for a combination of good BDSM skill with open sexuality with guys who are not their boyfriends.

http://www.eros-guide.com/files/danika1.htm
http://www.LadyAtria.com/fantasy.html

I think that Atria is the Ayn Rand of BDSM. She correctly sees that the brain is the most sensual organ, and doesn't give a fuck what other Domme's think of her. And there definitely is a Domination Mafia, as Danika was pretty much forced off the BDSM page at ErosGuide, and advertises over in the fantasy section. Domme's who do sex ARE ostracized, and I believe that sex-negative domme's are in fact, an even more insidious kind of Moral Majority.

Almost final thought on this issue: I was looking at a FBSM website, which states NO SEX, but offers a manual release. I was in an AMP, and posted on the door was a sign explicitly stating that the establishment would NOT condone sexual activity, in a place that is clearly a whorehouse. Thus, the words "NO SEX" are actually a legal talisman, used to ward off LE. Therefore, I don't believe that sex-negative domme's should have the right to keep honest providers from using this talisman. It is therefore insufficient reason for domme's to scream "But my website said NO SEX, so put on this condom and jerk yourself off while I go watch TV, you worm." Gosh, if I wanted to be treated like that, I'd fucking get married.

Final thought: For gas stations, FBSM and BDSM, full service and self service should entail a cost differential. For gas and FBSM, full service costs more. But for BDSM, it costs less. Why?

Really final thought: Condoms for self service? Give me a break!

Anon

--

Pro-domination IS prostitution. Get over it.

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FatherConfessor FatherConfessor rating
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02-Aug-02, 02:58 PM (PST)
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12. "I declare this thread completey dead"
In response to message.0
 
Okay, here's my assessment:

1) The guys are way too touchy. There is some "unresolved" inferiority complex that is causing you guys to attack the domme's. Yes, you've made an effort to connect more honestly, but the covert hostility is so thick you can cut it with a circumcision knife.

2) The domme's just don't want to play. (Maybe if I changed my handle to MotherSuperior?) These are women who DON'T WANT TO BE WHORES, but do want to do SM. The guys are baiting them, but it won't work.

3) There is no real desire in this online community to find a higher ground, because the domme's NEED their loathing of men in general to fuel their work; to be authentic about thinking men are worms, unworthy of penile contact. And the guys, well, honestly, we're all PAYING women to touch our penises, right? How much anger do you think we might be storing up over that one?

My recommendation is to let this thread die. Guys, stop nagging the poor domme's about their No Sex policy. If you really like sex with your BDSM, just post one sentence saying that. Girls, save up your disdain for the sessions, don't let it bleed out here, where the whoremongers will attack you verbally, without quarter. Then, let's all sit back and realize that Redbook is really just interactive mental performance art.

From now on, just well enough alone.

FC

--
"All we are saying, is give sex a chance..."

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AnonMon AnonMon rating
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02-Aug-02, 03:25 PM (PST)
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13. "If you really like sex with your BDSM, just post one sentence saying that"
In response to message.12
 
   Okay, I'm done with this.

I really like it when I do a double session with a domme and her female sub (this really happened about six years ago with a very respected domme). There was good chemistry, so limits were slowly eroded. Both were gorgeous. They tied me up and teased me, I worshipped their feet and asses, and they spanked me. Finally, the domme fucked me in the ass with her strap-on so skillfully, as her sub blew me to completion. Now that was a great session.

I guess I want this kind of action, but it's so hard to find these days.

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BigWilly BigWilly rating
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03-Aug-02, 00:43 AM (PST)
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14. "RE: If you really like sex with your BDSM, just post one sentence saying that"
In response to message.13
 
   AnonMan - Are these ladies still in business? If so, please send an email to my private inbox. This is one fantasy I have which isn't likely to happen given the current scene of pro dommes in the Bay Area.

This sort of reminds me of a scene I had with Texas Mary a couple of years ago.

First, she tied me up and shaved off all my body hair below my neck. She did this in about 90 minutes. By comparison, I had an inexperiened domme at Fantasy Makers shave one leg in three hours.

After the shaving, she cross-dressed me. She did such a good job even I though I was passable.

We then did a scenario where she was the recruiter and I was the job interviewee. Half way through the interview she "discovers" that I'm really a dude, and she makes me walk over to her side of the desk and orders me to suck her cock (strap-on). Soon we end up in a 69 on the floor with her sucking my cock, and my alternately sucking her strap-on and pussy.

She then turns me over and gives me the best rim job of my life.

She then turns me on my back and does my in the butt with her strap-on while she's jacking me off.

Then she takes her strap-on off and I fuck her to completion.

Unbelievable session. Total cost: $$.5.

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AnonMon AnonMon rating
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03-Aug-02, 11:58 AM (PST)
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15. "Now THAT'S hot!"
In response to message.14
 
   LAST EDITED ON 03-Aug-02 AT 12:00 PM (PDT)

LAST EDITED ON 03-Aug-02 AT 11:59 AM (PDT)

Exactly what I mean. As sexual consumers interested in bang for our buck, that's exactly what we're looking for! Really hot and dirty sex play, at a reasonable price. I prefer BDSM sessions where the underlying emotional context is affection, with SM psychodrama layered over it. Many domme's today do the SM with skill, but the underlying emotional context is actually either detachment or disgust. Very similar to the normal hobby, where GFE could be defined as a provider who has an underlying emotional context of authenticity and affection, no matter what her sexual skill level is like. I guess we're all really looking for a PSE (porn star experience), and trying to avoid a PBE (prissy bitch experience). And yeah, I like to "sexually top from the bottom." So what, I'm paying for it right?

So anyway, this domme I saw asked me not to let others know she went this far, because she was concerned about being ostracized for such behavior. This was a while ago, and she's not in the area anyway. Also, she told me that there is a secret monthly meeting of the most established domme's who decide how best to control the evolution of this industry. It's all part of their "female superiority" megalomania trip. Bottom line: domme's really just want to be domme's and not whores, and guys like us want them to be whores as well. Whoring is still considered by many to be a lowly profession where the woman is not in control. (To that, I say, HA!)

It's really unfortunate how difficult it is to find a provider who is actually beautiful (some domme's are overweight dogs), skilled at both sex *and* BDSM, and just plain sluts down deep. Like we were saying, I lament the loss of fully sexual BDSM, just as I lament the loss of $1 lapdances at MBOT.

And if the domme's don't want to participate in our thread, well, too bad. I guess Redbook is fundamentally for guys wanting to trade tips and trends in the whoring business. We can do so more freely without them watching over our shoulders.

Anon

PS, I'm not a woman hater, I'm a whore lover. It is simple human nature that I want a woman who is hungry for cock, not so frigid that she requires it wrapped up in her presence.

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BigWilly BigWilly rating
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03-Aug-02, 03:27 PM (PST)
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17. "RE: Now THAT'S hot!"
In response to message.15
 
   AnonMan - You make several good points that I feel the need to comment on.

I think where BDSM has been made sex-free, it attracts certain types of women who wouldn't normally be attracted to it if it were sex-inclusive. Similar to how strripers who don't offer extras work at some clubs, while extras girls work at others (MSC, MBOT, NCT). So, non-extras stripping is in a lot of ways similar to non-extras BDSM - you pay them lots of money and all you get is sexual frustration. One non-extras stripper I knew left stripping to work at the Gates. As a stripper, she was very bitchy, money-grubby, and her dances were detached with no-contact. So, its not too surprising she continued her "financial domination" of men by working at the Gates where I'm sure she offers only a PBE.

The part you mentioned about the secret monthly meeting of pro dommes is very interesting and definitely answers some questions for me. It always seemed to me like there was some sort of secret conspiracy among the Bay Area no-sex dommes to keep the activity sex free. If a lot of the dommes started to be sex inclusive, it would put the no-sex dommes pretty much out of business.

It's unfortunate that the sex-inclusive dommes are ostracised by the BDSM community, which pretends to be open-minded. This ostracism has to be, at least in-part, financially motivated.

So, the next time I consider paying two to three hundred dollars just to beat off into a condom while the domme does her nails in the next room, I'll just stay at home and watch a good porno movie and leave the condoms in the bathroom.


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AnonMon AnonMon rating
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18. "RE: Now THAT'S hot!"
In response to message.17
 
   Absolute agreement about the homomorphism between no-extras strippers and no-extra domme's. In fact, that's a much better term than no-sex or sex-negative. Extras is a very good term...

Yeah, no-extra strippers and domme's basically get you excited, but will not finish the job. Extras-inclusive strippers and dommes are willing to provide a complete experience, and release. (Vibrator releases should not be considered an extra.)

Okay kids, let's all start using that term, when we review the domme's in the review section. So don't be a wimpy sub and say stuff like "she was incredible, and I really felt like worshipping her, and I was satisfied at the end." Get really detailed: "7/8/9/0 - L/A/S/Release Technique. She's 5'4", 150 lbs, D cups enhanced, former stripper. Good at bondage, CBT, corporeal, strap on technique. Refused to provide a hand release in the end although intimating it would be possible (said I wasn't a good enough slave, maybe next time!). Made me put on a condom for self service. So reports of BBHJ are YMMV. Won't return, there are plenty of other SM providers who will put out, now that Redbook turned the tide against sex-negative dommes."

And by the way, the monthly meeting of top dommes is probably much less sinister than it sounds. Just a bunch of ladies getting together to bitch about bad subs, like us.

AN

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SassyDomme
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03-Aug-02, 07:57 PM (PST)
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19. "re: the secret monthly meeting of pro dommes"
In response to message.17
 
   Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do! We do!

Who robs cavefish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!

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IsabelleTierney
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03-Aug-02, 02:49 PM (PST)
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16. "just a girl's point of view..."
In response to message.0
 
   Missed by most, I reiterate my response from a week ago:

Okay, okay... I'll respond already. But don't pick on my grammar; I'm home sick and quite discombobulated from taking too much Theraflu and Dayquil.
I'm not very vocal on red-book, but I do read it every now and again and I'm always surprised to hear clients (some of whom I know I've seen) complaining in such a candid way (I really like BigWilly-you surly old pervert! ). These complaints are never voiced to any women I know directly, and I'm glad to know there is somewhere I can go to hear honest feedback to the pro-bdsm scene. I just hope I'm not going to be berated for responding honestly.

As for the "no sex" thing:
I'm a submissive and I follow the no-sex trend. I don't do this solely for the sake of staying on the side of the law; I actually like my sexless sessions.
Firstly, nobody on this board has addressed the fact that meshing BDSM and sex together can yield undeniable intimacy and closeness. Every pro-domme and sub I know has a sincere fondness and attachment to SM and no woman can completely shut out the emotional aspects of a session. Even though I build aspects of intimacy and enjoy sharing closeness with my clients in session, by not having sex with them I reserve a part of myself. If I were to mesh the aspects of sex and SM with so many different people I would feel hollow. What could I then reserve for myself?
Also, I have been in a serious monogamous relationship for the past three years. Even if I could be okay having sex with my clients, my boyfriend wouldn't be. Certain things are more important to me than my work.
Another reason I don't have sex with my clients is because I simply don't want to. I really like most of my clients as people. Minx's list of top 10 agitations was hilarious, and I've encountered all ten, but those men aren't the norm. The norm is a really nice, sometimes funny, smart guy who knows what he likes. Contrary to the stereotype, the norm isn't even unattractive. But all of these things aren't enough to make me want to have sex with my clients. As much as I would like to deny it, I have emotions attached to sex. I don't even have one night stands.
I have a lot of fun in my sessions and I must say, even if I became uber-wealthy tomorrow I would continue taking appointments from the clients I like. I don't hate my job BECAUSE I've established parameters which define what is okay for me and what isn't. Now that I've written all of this it seems kind of silly to even be explaining myself...

As far as the condom thing ...
Some guys are really messy. If I'm tied up and blindfolded and some guy is touching himself and then touches all the paddles and then touches me, we have a sticky problem. At the end if a guy needs to take the condom off and use a towel, that's a different story, but while hands are moving from genitals to everything, I'd rather have it safe.

Thanks for listening to my dayquil diatribe and I hope I haven't offended anyone...response would be nice, Belle
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

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Lorrett Lorrett rating
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04-Aug-02, 10:29 PM (PST)
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20. "RE: just a girl's point of view..."
In response to message.16
 
   I enjoyed your honesty and your point of view. Funny to listen to the Red Book Curmudgeon-in-Training Club (you have to be at least 50 to be a real curmudgeon) blathering to one another about secret cabals of anti-sex Dommes. As opposed to not-so-secret cabals of guys who are up to their ears in gorgeous, sex-obsessed women, and generously give up time from their revels to lambaste those unconscionable Dommes who aren't willing to join their fan clubs...

There's nothing extrordinary about penises: almost every man alive has one, not to mention male field mice, elephants and jackasses, and they're all substantially the same. I've had sex with an incredible number of men in my life, and it wasn't for their penises. The guys behind the dicks are infinitely more varied, more interesting and at least potentially more fun. You are absolutely right to be selective! It seems to me that the guys who are worth having aren't spending their time bitching to each other on Red Book.

I'm amazed that they complain so much that the Dommes don't want to join in. They should be thankful when a few Dommes (and overprotective submissive mother-types like me) occasionally rise to their baiting and give them a little sport. Mostly, we're busy enjoying our own sex lives...with men who don't think a fine wine has an "h" in it...thus leaving the RB master baiters to exchange their rhetoric without us!

Keep the faith, baby, and be well.

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BigWilly BigWilly rating
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21. "RE: just a girl's point of view..."
In response to message.20
 
   I find it a tad disturbing that the few women who've responded want to reduce this to barbs and covert insults. Unfortunately, I've found this sort of hypocritical and judgemental mindset all-too-common in the pro BDSM community.

I've tried to keep my criticisms from getting personal, but it's not easy when you get baited like this. Although that isn't to say I don't enjoy being compared to field mice, elephants and jackasses just because I possess an extraordinary penis. However, I do take comfort in knowing that there are an equal number of field mice, elephants and jackasses who have cunts as well. Nothing special in being a mammal.

As much as I like conspiracy theory, I take the "super-secret monthly meeting of dommes" with a grain of salt, although it would certainly explain some things about the scene in the Bay Area. It's also interesting to note that Lorrett responded. perhaps because she stands to lose the most financially if the no-sex dommes are put out of business.

To the all the pro BDSM ladies out there who aren't frigidly afraid to get your hands dirty: God bless you. You make this world a better place. May you continue to do so without attacks, reprisals, revenge or ostracism from the BDSM Moral Majority.

Peace.

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AnonMon AnonMon rating
Charter Member
1574 posts, 6 feedbacks, 12 points
05-Aug-02, 01:44 AM (PST)
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22. "I agree with Father Confessor"
In response to message.20
 
   Let's just let this thread die. But it keeps coming back like the living dead zombie that it is. Even I'M bored with this constant attack and counter-attack. As far as I can see, the men have been trying somewhat to be polite, but the domme's do tend to be absolute unrelenting bitches. So if you want to see a blistering verbal attack, just keep baiting us.

Like Winston Churchill said, "Madam, in the morning, you will still be ugly."

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LMorgaine
Charter Member
59 posts
05-Aug-02, 09:12 AM (PST)
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23. "RE: I agree with Father Confessor"
In response to message.22
 
   This thread has basically turned into one big circle jerk, with all of you frustrated toddlers not getting the attention back from Mommy you want, so you whine to each other and jerk each others' penises in some semblance of comfort. Like Harlow's monkey, you cling to the wire frame for warmth and nourishment, finding only a nipple there dispensing milk. And you suck and suck in desperation, trying to get something that isn't there. You can say whatever you want back to this reply - try to mock it, congratulate yourself on how much more "deep" and "evolved" you are than the dommes, go off on how "prude" and "frigid" they are. One of you even named himself after a penis! Do you see a woman on this board named "CorpulentVag?" "LargePussy?" I think not. Because women generally think of themselves as more than a body part, whereas the number of times "penis" has appeared in this argument is astounding - don't you guys know that you are more than penises? If you don't, nobody can help you. What about the dommes who tried to reach into your minds? Nope, doesn't matter to you because they didn't try to reach into your pants as well. I'm done conversing with toddlers now. I'm going back to the parental area, but anyone who wishes to climb out of the playpen and be an adult is welcome to join me.

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IsabelleTierney
Charter Member
98 posts
05-Aug-02, 09:20 AM (PST)
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24. "Guurrr...."
In response to message.23
 
   Why the hostility???? I gave a totally honest and frank response for my reasons behind not sleeping with clients. I listed MY hang-ups and said nothing bad about my clients.

Big Willy, I don't understand what you mean by barbs and covert insults. The only things I said about clients were that I find the majority to be nice, funny and cute. I even said I liked you and your posts!!!! I have a thing for dirty old men...

Left over bits:

1) I am also bored with the attack/counter-attack game, but why is it that my very legitimate and nice explanation got ignored by the guys? Was it not lurid enough? I baited no one and took advantage of the opportunity to publicly answer a complex question which is posed to me EACH time I work!

2) I am not anti-sex. In fact I am a very wonton brat who has been fixated on sex ever since I knew what it was. I just don't do "it" with everyone. I guess that makes me a tease...

3) I only wish I could be part of some underground cabal. It appeals to every one of my dorky, anarchistic fantasies.

4) I'm going to post a FUN topic. I only hope everyone is as eager to write on something sexy...

xoxoxoxoxoxoBelle

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MzAlyssa
Charter Member
1274 posts, Rate MzAlyssa
05-Aug-02, 09:53 AM (PST)
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25. "Thank you, Belle!"
In response to message.24
 
(and thank you LM, who made me spit diet soda all over the keyboard once again. I will call up your answering machine and scream "penis" a million times in a row tonight!)
Isabelle, I'm not sure why your argument was ignored. There was a thread in general on Ani Difranco's letter to a john song where the subject came up over sexworkers who'd been abused and whether or not Johns were contributing to it. I very clearly stated that it is the provider's responsibility to care for herself and judge for herself whether or not she should be doing the job at that present time and that this was NOT the responsibility of the clients. I did say that abusive behavior towards sex workers is never acceptable, listing things such as having sex and then running out without paying, yelling mean things at dancers onstage, writing false reviews, etc. But I ended with the conclusion that childhood sexual abuse (which was the original subject) is something different and it is up to the individual to recognize their triggers and how this can work either for or against them. The VERY NEXT post asked the original question again, as if I had never answered it in the first place. Someone also called the experience of the dancer in the song a "sex-negative" perspective. Sometimes I think it's that for certain individuals here, the words of a female just don't carry the same merit the words of their male friends do. Perhaps they don't trust women. Maybe they feel they've been hurt in the past and don't want it to happen again. I don't completely understand the terms LM brought up constantly being applied: prude,sex-negative, frigid, and others. There are a whole group of us studying to be therapists and we've actually talked about this in class before. The men in class have given interesting perspectives, and a few of them have been clients at FM in the past (not my clients, though). I love BDSM with a passion - the transformation, the magic, the bonding, the psychology, all of it. People visit dommes for so many reasons: working out issues, someone to talk to, wanting punishment, they get turned on by that particular domme or the session itself, they have a fetish for certain things, their partner won't play, etc. BDSM kinda takes away the hidden meanings, strips things down. It's funny, because it's such an elaborate fantasy set-up, but it really does get things down to the bare minimum. Just you, your breathing, the instrument being used or not, the domme, the lighting...sometimes your sight or hearing is gone...then only her footsteps, the rustle of tafetta, the candle carried closer and t-t-p-p-e-d... ah, wax. ;)
Anyway, I'm going to play in the adult section with Laura (I pictured a kiddie pool when I read her post, actually). I love most of my visitors but if I'm not your style, I'm not your style. I will never give handjobs. Ever. It doesn't interest me one bit. Many other things do, but handjobs don't. And if you take that statement as an insult, why don't you stop for a minute and consider why that might be. What are you projecting onto me or Laura or Lorrett or Phoenicia or Belle or whoever?
- Mistress Alyssa

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