I'm in better shape than average, but need to get back to hitting the gym more often than once a week. Thanks for the tip.

Definitely.

> As to the guilt trip stuff, only you can solve it.

For some reason, this reminds me of the Picture of Dorian Gray.

pohaku: "YOU also need to make serious effort but the return would be far greater than commercial sex."

Thank you very much for suggesting we stay together. It's nice to hear a different perspective.

pohaku: "Maybe she really doesn't realize how important sex is to you."

It's also that I miss having a partner I respect, can confide in, and enjoy being with who enjoys being with me. I've lived with sexual frustration for years, so it's that and the combination of the other issues that are pushing me to the edge.

pohaku: "sensuality training course"

My wife wouldn't do that. She didn't kiss a guy or date until she was an adult. We only first kissed on the 5th or 6th date. However, we did have an active sex life before the first baby.

Months after birth, I thought maybe she needed to feel sexy again, so when she was in good spirits I took her to a discreet adult store operated and well-reviewed by women to buy lingerie of her choice--she was too embarassed to go in. 'Gifts' of lingerie, honey dust, and tasteful DVDs were accepted politely but used only once.

pohaku: "marriage counseling therapy"

One day I called 9-1-1. She hadn't been able to function at work for months and that was catching up with her. Sometimes the things she said didn't make sense. Sometimes they didn't match reality. I had declined a piece of bread in the AM, and you could see the anger seething in her eyes, until hours later she wouldn't stop screaming at the kids. I asked her why she was screaming at them, and she said it was all my fault for upsetting her earlier?! She couldn't quite remember what I had done. When she tried to hit me, I locked the kids in their toom and tried to calm them down. When she tried to break down the door with a plunger and said she was going to die, I called the cops.

She agreed to see a doctor. She declined meds and one-on-one counseling but agreed to marriage counseling. She thought what happened was mostly my fault but was willing to accept some responsibility to avoid divorce (and to get on short-term disability). After she espoused some... strange... views, the counselor convinced her to enter one on one sessions and eventually to take medication. Things calmed down. She now realized she wasn't sane before, and one side of her family had a history of similar problems. In her opinion exercising was the reason she was better, the counselor was useless, and the meds made her feel numb. After quitting both on her own she remained fairly stable.

Being away from the kids all day at work stressed her out, so she accepted a generous offer to leave work and stay home.

The workload of watching the kids got her stressed out, so I hired a full-time nanny of her choice.

Watching the nanny 'be inefficient' stressed her out, so I encouraged her to take a class she would enjoy during the day.

She's rational, but easily distressed. She's able to do well in class, cook dinner, and do housework (her choice, I offered to hire a maid)--but she's not who I married and hard to live with. A month ago I threw the best birthday party for her ever, her words, and our 'inefficient' nanny even came along to help watch the kids. When my relatives came to visit for a weekend she refused go anywhere because she was upset I was spending too much time with them. Father's Day she was depressed and snappy all weekend because I had lost a replaceable key a few days earlier. She said she didn't want to be that way but she couldn't help herself. A few days ago she was upset because I spoke a 'bad word', apparently Y-E-L-L. Today she was furious when she asked me to return home to get something for her, and I did, but I didn't also get something else she desired but forgot to ask me for.

She's attractive and I care about her, but I don't respect her and don't think this is a balanced relationship. My parents wonder what happened to her and think I'm young enough that getting a divorce and finding someone better is a good idea if I can ensure the kids are safe. Of course, I didn't discuss the other options with them! Maybe offering extra alimony in return for her regularly seeing a counselor would work...

Paid sexual companionship is only good for a "hobby", not as a substitute for intimacy. If you go down the route of mistress/sugar baby and intimacy occurs then what are you going to do? Leaving a marriage because the marriage doesn't work is one thing, leaving because you have a new ("better") relationship in the wings is cheesy. Your kids will forgive the first, but the second they won't even if they know the marriage was terrible.

Paid sex can buy you some comfort while you seek therapy. It won't buy you a lifetime though. Counseling will help clarify what you need to do (stay or go). I would also talk to a divorce attorney (pay cash) to get a better understanding of your rights. Your wife's mental state could likely give you custody.

For me, I would rather be homeless and happy than miserable in a mansion.

This is a difficult situation and you could always see a counselor to have them help you weigh out the pros and cons for all involoved to make the decision easier for you.

Good luck,
Jami

Feel free to inbox if you need to talk.
It's my business doing pleasure with you!

You deserve a life with someone who loves you and act responsibly as a parent. Any of the hobby option will not only work emotionally for you but if discovered it could also hurt your chance of getting the sole custody of your children later on.

In a world of binary choices, that may be true.

But we all know that happy kids can be parented in divorced families, or in families where the father or mother is unfaithful.

Personally, I have a hard time imagining a situation where a father must choose between sexual gratification or good parenting.

I've been more critical of adultery than most on here, for obvious and less-obvious reasons, but even I would readily admit that a father can see hookers and still be a good father. He can even have an ongoing affair with a mistress, if he's skillful and lucky.

Be the change
you wish to see

My happiness and my childrens' happiness are linked. If I am not happy, it's harder to be cheerful with them, try as I may. Thanks for reminding me that I'm also a role model, and that how they perceive I handled a poor marriage and any future relationship(s), may influence they handle their own relationships.

SB/SD relationships can be ended at any time by either party. You can find a SB on a SB website or right here at RB. There are plenty of low volume, college educated providers who would respect your need for privacy and discretion.

I always tell my submissives to take care of work and family first, then we play.

That was thoughtful advice that was both well considered and said in the manner of someone who actually cares about his fellow man (woman).

Congratulations!

Anerriphtho Kybos!

Sure, she's put up with shit, and she cares about me. How many years of a relationship focused almost entirely on her needs and helping her to avoid and cope with daily stressors does she deserve for that, when she refuses to get help like anti-depressants or counseling? I'm asserting that I also deserve to enjoy my life. She may care about me, but she has zero interest in my life, snaps at me, and resents my help even as she requests it.

"You are probably responsible for at least half of the problems"

I'm not responsible for her mental problems. I'm not responsible for her yelling at us. I've done everything she, I, our nanny, and my parents could think of to make her life easier. I am responsible for having put up with this situation for so long.

"and will just draps them into the next marriage."

Aye, there's a risk I'll seek out similar, destructive relationships in the future.

"A lot of men think that divorce is the solution to their prob lems and end up much worse off. You will be poorer and miss your kids."

That's the million dollar question. Divorce means I won't be snapped at and won't have to spend sooooo much time dealing with her issues. Our relationship lacks respect, friendship, passion, and sex but there's no guarantee I'll find those things after a divorce or that the single life is better. A divorce will cost me time and money and if I can't prove her mental issues to the court's satisfaction I'll be seeing the kids less often. And despite all the problems in our marriage, I would miss my wife.

I am going to tell you some things that you will not like. However, you are stuck in a funk and feeling sorry for yourself. This seldom solves as problems.

It sounds like you still care about her and would like to make it work if you could find a way. From your response, it doesn't sound like you have done much to make this work other than build up resentment and hire a nanny. What a pathetic strategy!

Nothing that you have said makes me believe this isn't at least half of your fault, if not more. I honestly think the main problem is that you lack the skills to deal with a woman. This will not go away.

From the above, you state that main problem is that your wife likes to "snap at you" and is self centered. I hate to tell you this, but this crap is NOTHING SPECIAL. My reaction is to be candid- so what? I have heard a lot worse than this.

Women like to bitch in anoying ways and can be self centered- that is how they are built. They can go through long stretches where things are bad, particularly if you lack skills in dealing with her tantrums and bad attitude. This is particularly true in a state that is self centered and shallow as California.

It sounds like there are two problems. First, your wife and perhaps you could benefit from some counseling. Second, I wonder if you really know how to deal with your wife and make her happy. This is a set of skills that they don't teach you on Oprah. You need to be cunning and strategic in dealing with a pissed off woman. Particularly when you (and only you!) have set a bad dynamic for dealing with her.

My wife likes to complain as well- she is a typical woman after all. However, I have found ways to outwit her complaining and she loves and respects me for it in fact. When I was younger and dumber, I thought that fights were the time that you communicate and when you should level with your partner sincerely. 20 years with my wife has taught me that this is an extraordinarly bad strategy. There is a time and place to communciate honestly with your wife, but it is seldom when she is on the war path.

If she is truly mentally ill, you are a major league asshole for deserting her now. Get her help by doing whatever it takes. Ever see that A&E program intervention? They can get hard core heroin addicts to get help if they are determined enough. She can't be that bad can she? Do what it takes to get her some help if that is truly what is going on. Getting her family to assist you may be the way to go.

However, it is more likely that she has garden variety depression and a husband who doesn't know how to deal with her. Many, many men have dealt with this situation successfully before. You will face the same stuff again- this is all very typical.

Here are some tips from my personal experience:

1. Realize that a lot of complaining is not about you (even if you are the target of her bitching). They just want attention and to tell you how their day went (in the most annoying way possible). In my experience, a lot of bitching is they want to know that you will put up with their shit so they know that you care about them.

I have never met anyone who has been married long term that hasn't had to listen to some bitching. During these times, I find it helpful to keep things in perspective. A lot of this is not about you (particularly if she is legitimately mentally ill!). Don't take it personal because it is not.

Man up and don't be a whinning pussy- it will only make things worse! I find it helps to think of a crying baby when I am listening to my wife bitch. I would never be mad at a crying baby- they can't help it, this is all they know how to do. Also, I find it helpful to project my grandfather. His wife spent half of their early marriage insitutionalized and he never divorced her (she eventually did get better). He just knew she had a problem and was man enough not to kick her to the curb when she was at her weakest.

2. You don't gain a lot from fighting with her while she is a complaining mood or try to have a rational argument with her. When women are in a complaining mood they don't give a shit about facts or reason. The worst thing you can do is try to reason with her in most cases. I am not saying you should never fight with her (she will think you are a pussy and a pushover if you never do). However, realize that when people are in a fighting mood, they seldom can think rationally through the other side of the story.

3. I have always found that humor works well when my wife is bitching. I hear her out for about 15 minutes and then try to crack the best joke that I can. I breaks the bad mood and gives her an excuse to get off of her rant.

4. You are in an incredibly bad dynamic- this is at least half your fault brother. Have you done anything nice with your wife recently- just you and her? Take her to the Lost Coast, Tahoe, Hawaii, wherever. Get her away from the kids and day to day responsibilities. A lot of people get so overwhelmed in daily crap that they don't nuture the relationship at all. Even if she bitches about going- take her. I have seen very few women that don't like to be taken out and be spoiled to death. It is cheaper than your divorce attorney.

5. When she is at the height of bitching at you, tell her that you profoundly love her and would do anything for her and the kids. Also, tell her it would devastate you if you ever lost her. Tell her this even if she has done her best to piss her off. She will continue to bitch, but it will make an impression.

6. Make up sex. Fuck her well after she bitches. Half of her complaining might be due to the fact that she hasn't been laid well in quite a while.

7. Be strong for her. Women like strength and don't like whinny pussies- nothing in your messages projects strength.

8. Give her some compliments, praise her and say positive upbeat things (even if you have to lie and she doesn't deserve it- this is important particularly when she least deserves it). I once heard that you have to give 20 compliments for every one negative thing you say to a woman. People don't like being criticized. However, you have probably only been dishing out negative stuff to your wife. Bad strategy. Will she know that you are sucking up to her- of course! That doesn't mean that they won't like it.

You need to find what works for you. However, I think this stuff is at least half of your fault, if not more. Either your wife is mentally ill and you have not forced her to get help. If this is the case, you have truly done her a disservice. The second is that you don't know how to deal with her and she has garden variety depression. It is going to get worse before it gets better, but this sort of thing can be fixed. You can always get divorced later and if you lack skills in dealing with women (which I suspect you do), you will face the same crap again. If you get married again, you create a new set of kids with the same fucked up home life. Deal with your problems now- they probably won't get easier on the next go around.

Good luck and best wishes. This is from a guy that is still happily married after 20 years with the same woman.

The problem's that my wife has psychological issues that cause her to snap at me, snap at the kids, and occasionally hints at suicide. She's too tired and too easily stressed to work, take care of the children, or go out for long, even with more than full-time help.

> I hate to tell you this, but this crap is NOTHING SPECIAL.

I never claimed this was special.

> Women like to bitch in anoying ways and can be self centered- that is how they are built.

I know many women who are decidely not self-centered, including some who volunteer for non-profits, my nanny, and one who inboxed me about this very thread. And many are capable of working!

> If she is truly mentally ill, you are a major league asshole for deserting her now. Get her help by doing whatever it takes.

I've done *multiple interventions* with myself, my family, her family, the police, her doctor, a psychologist, etc. She doesn't want help. When she goes ballistic there's usually an excuse--she didn't eat enough, she didn't get a nap, her sleep was interrupted, she didn't exercise enough, she didn't play the piano, she had too much work to do, she was feeling a bit sick, she doesn't get enough help around the house, hiring help is stressful, I didn't ask politely enough, I asked too politely, a noise startled her, etc. All of these are semi-plausible but she admits to being depressed for 8 out of the past 12 months and thinks it's normal for a mommy. When others tell her it's not, she says she's not a super-mommy like them or that their life is so much easier for this reason or that.

"3. I have always found that humor works well when my wife is bitching. I hear her out for about 15 minutes and then try to crack the best joke that I can. I breaks the bad mood and gives her an excuse to get off of her rant."

Yesterday about 6pm my wife learned my daughter got a D on a quiz she had helped her to prepare for. I said it was just a quiz and she had a few more weeks to improve and suggested we hire a tutor. My wife began screaming at the top of her lungs and crying. She told me she was a failure and her life wasn't worth living. My kids started to cry because she was shrieking. They came over to her, so she snapped at both of them to go away and gave them each a little push. I asked her not to snap at the kids. She said it was my fault for blaming her. I tried to calm her. I told her the quiz wouldn't affect the final grade, I didn't blame her, and apologized for not helping more. That may be 'wussy' but cracking a joke definitely wouldn't have worked. Not that my approach did. 15-20 minutes later she was still rough with the kids and out-of-control so I told her to leave. Our nanny--God bless her--helped my son while I helped my daughter. My wife came back a couple hours later to sleep it off. In the morning she was in a similar state so I told her to leave. My nanny bought her a floral arrangement and my daughter made a get well soon card. I skipped work to find a great tutor and called to tell her about it. She was in good enough shape to return home but still sad. I tutored my daughter for an hour while she played the piano. By 6pm she was happy and blamed yeterday on her one summer class not allowing her enough free time to play the piano which she said relieved 'normal stress'.

Is this what your wife does, and you say most wives will do? I hope not! If so, I may decide to stay single.

She won't get help and I won't put up with this forever. My parents think I should jump ship. I probably should. I'm not quite ready but I'm taking steps in that direction.

I was *almost ready* last weekend. She went ballistic on me totally out of the blue for being too polite and I told her she would NOT yell at me anymore. She could tell I was ready to leave and suddenly got afraid. She made me dinner. Then breakfast. Then she went out to a movie with me for the first time in ages. She did need to nap for a few hours afterwards to recover. She had sex with me three times after no sex in many months.

So I stayed. 1 crazy day, 2 good days, 8 ok days, 1 crazy day. It's almost a bell curve, so I prepare to leave, but I stay today.

Maybe I'm the crazy one for putting up with this.