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kalem click here to view user rating
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"China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
 
   China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?

(CSM, AP) In the wake of Monday's 7.9-magnitude earthquake in China's southwestern province of Sichuan, some international experts are questioning the adequacy of the region's building codes and construction practices.

Juyuan Middle School, about 60 miles from the epicenter, was one of several schools that collapsed Monday. So far rescuers have recovered more than 60 bodies from the school, the official Xinhua News Agency said. But there was little word on the rest of the nearly 900 teenagers who were believed to be trapped under their collapsed school building.

Some students managed to escape, while at least one was pulled out of the wreckage alive Tuesday morning. At least 1,000 students and teachers were killed or missing after another school collapsed in Mianyang city, about 100 miles northeast of the epicenter, Xinhua reported.

Other schools closer to the epicenter also toppled, although specifics were not available because the area was generally inaccessible.

Earthquake engineers say that constructing a building to resist a quake of magnitude 7 or 8 is possible, but is often considered cost prohibitive, adding 7 to 8 percent in costs.

"Earthquake resistance is really more workmanship, than material," Amr Elnashai, director of the Mid-America Earthquake Center at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, says.

Most seismologists interviewed say that China's quake code is adequate, if not the most up-to-date. "It is well-defined and has all the right features," says Mr. Elnashai.

Earthquake resistance, he notes, does not mean buildings don't sustain damage; they do, but don't collapse.

Schools, he says, are particularly vulnerable because they are often mid-sized buildings, smaller projects for contractors that are paid for the a government bureaucracies. Two recent earthquakes in Indonesia and in Kashmir also resulted in a disproportionate student deaths. "Often school buildings suffer quite a bit," Elnashnai says.

China has "fairly rigorous building codes that have been in place. The problem is implementation of the codes," says Andrew Smeall, an associate with the Asia Society's US-China Center in New York.

Roger Musson, a seismologist at the British Geological Survey in Edinburgh, Scotland, notes that China has good earthquake engineers, but "you can never tell what's going to happen on the spot."

In Turkey's devastating 1999 earthquake, building codes were excellent, but "fly by night builders" had erected buildings using "extremely poor" materials, Mr. Musson says.

"You can buy the building inspector," he says, but "you can't buy off the earthquake."

China has a history of massive earthquakes. About 200 of its cities with a population of over a million are located at risk of magnitude 7 earthquake.

"In this case, where the earthquake occurred, there are a magnitude 4 earthquakes every couple of months," says Lupei Zhu, an associate professor of geophysics, at St. Louis University in Missouri, and a former employee of the China Earthquake Administration, which oversees public awareness and the collection of seismic data for the country.

Bill Murphy, an engineering geologist at the University of Leeds in England, notes that magnitude of the quake is only one measure. "It's not so much the magnitude, but the amount of shaking," he says. "Some of these aftershocks [in Sichuan] have been earthquakes in their own right. That might cause some additional buildings to collapse, especially those that have been weakened by the main earthquake."

A civil engineer at the University of Western Australia in Perth told New Scientist magazine that the buildings in Sichuan weren't built to withstand an earthquake as large as the one that hit.

"The seismic code for the area substantially underestimated the earthquake strength," said Hong Hao. He said that China's earthquake regulations class this province as equivalent to a 7 on the Mercalli intensity scale, which uses historical information to assess risk of damage from earthquakes. That means there's a 10 percent risk of an earthquake occurring every 50 years of an intensity that would cause negligible damaged. Monday's quake was a 10 or 11 on the Mercalli scale.

Xinhua said more than 12,000 had died in Sichuan province alone, but the total number of casualties remained uncertain. In a massive government relief operation, some 20,000 soldiers and police have arrived in the area, with 30,000 more on the way.

"Survivors can hold on for some time. Now it's not time to give up," said Wang Zhenyao, disaster relief official at the Ministry of Civil Affairs in Beijing.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080514/wl_csm/oshake

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dman click here to view user rating
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16-May-08, 10:33 AM (PST)
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1. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #0
 
   Why did so many schools collapse?

Probably because they were not built to withstand a 7.9 magnitude earthquake.

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kalem click here to view user rating
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16-May-08, 10:46 AM (PST)
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2. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #1
 
   No, that's not the point.

The point is that a disproportionate number of schools is reported to have collapsed, relative to other local buildings.

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happyjack click here to view user rating
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16-May-08, 11:01 AM (PST)
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3. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #2
 
~The point is that a disproportionate number of schools is reported to have collapsed, relative to other local buildings.~

There's a point in that? I fail to see it.

Maybe there is a disproportionate number of schools in the area to begin with?

Maybe the other structures are newer?

Maybe this statistic is just an oddity, like so many other things in life?

Jack

"If U were smarter, I'd have nothing 2 do"

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kalem click here to view user rating
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16-May-08, 10:56 PM (PST)
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7. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #3
 
   >Maybe this statistic is just an oddity, like so many other
>things in life?

Fuckit Jack, it's definitely Hillary Clinton's fault.
You're losing your edge...

Now where does the Rev Wright tie into this?

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happyjack click here to view user rating
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18-May-08, 10:43 AM (PST)
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10. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #7
 
I'm still waiting for you to show us how George Bush cutting education led to shitty school plans being placed on the internet..and where then downloaded by the Chinese.

Jack

"If U were smarter, I'd have nothing 2 do"

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kalem click here to view user rating
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18-May-08, 12:44 PM (PST)
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11. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #10
 
   Good job for cutting through to the hidden conspiracy beneath.

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happyjack click here to view user rating
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18-May-08, 01:56 PM (PST)
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12. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #11
 
Good job chiding others then going in to hiding when demolished:

http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID14/34791.html

http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID14/34784.html

Jack

"If U were smarter, I'd have nothing 2 do"

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dman click here to view user rating
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16-May-08, 12:12 PM (PST)
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5. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #2
 
   It's probably pretty straightforward: This area is in a fairly remote part of central China. If you look at the way that the communities evolved, it tended to be like this:

For thousands of years, these were agrarian villages, with very little in the way of modern construction. Most homes were made of bamboo or wood, with thatched roofs. Then, about 50-60 years ago, after the Communists took over, they came in and began the process of "Modernizing" these remote communities. This generally took the form of building some paved roads, and centralized schools and police stations and party offices. These buildings were basically built with masonry and brick, during the period from 35-60 years ago. The building codes at the time basically were nonexistant. Unfortunately, that technology is known to be highly susceptible to seismic failure. Then, in 1976, Another part of Central China had a major quake, where over 300K people were killed. This quake - and the coverup and failed response to it, led to some significant upheaval within the Communist party in China. One of the ramifications to emerge from the 1976 Quake was that building codes were instituted that included designing buildings in modern fashion to withstand significant earthquakes. But, since things in China have always been about aggressively modernizing and moving forward with limited resources, the new buildings were built to the new codes, but there was never a major effort made to retrofit the old ones. So if you look at the way these communities have evolved, the old agrarian homes remained for the farmers, The 35-60 year old school buildings continued to be used for their original purpose, and the newer commercial infrastructure was built around the center of these communities with modern technology. So, the present major 7.9 Magnitude quake comes along, and basically wipes out all of the buildings that were built from 1948 to 1975, which happened to include just about all of the schools. Most of the commercial buildings and modern apartment complexes in the area were built after 1980 to modern building codes, and those buildings fared much better in the quake, with few collapses. The tragedy of this quake happens to be that the chronology of the development and build-out of society in China happens to have occurred in multiple waves. The initial wave of community organizing and construction coincided with the period from 1948-1975, and pretty much everything in the area that was built during that time, failed during the quake. The next wave of modernization in these communities happened during the past 25 years or so, and those buildings mostly survived, because they were built to codes adopted after the 1976 quake. Unfortunately, the major failure here was that, in China's headlong rush to modernization and efficient use of their resources, they never took the time and money to retrofit the buildings constructed during the first wave of construction during the period before 1975. And that happened to include virtually all of the schools in these communities.

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cruise_boostamonty click here to view user rating
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16-May-08, 11:13 AM (PST)
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4. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #0
 
   My guess would be that schools might have more square footage in a one story area than the others. But that is a guess because I know nothing about how those building were built.

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always_away click here to view user rating
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6. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #0
 
   I’ve traveled in that part of China. It looks like all the public buildings were designed by the same person and built to the same specifications. If there was a design flaw in one school, it is in all schools.

One sees the same thing all through China and Russia.

AA

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Samesamebutdifferent click here to view user rating
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16-May-08, 10:59 PM (PST)
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8. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #6
 

I see it as population control.....

Me love LTs

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Rockout click here to view user rating
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17-May-08, 11:23 AM (PST)
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9. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #8
 
That is one way of looking at it but that doesn't answer the question.

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dumbfrog
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13. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #0
 
   money.......it is all about money

the less material the builders put into the build, the more money they can split with the school board.

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kalem click here to view user rating
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18-May-08, 08:32 PM (PST)
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14. "RE: China's quake: Why did so many schools collapse?"
In response to message #13
 
   Corruption is one issue, bad planning is another issue.
The lesson will be learned but unfortunately it will have cost many lives.

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