RedBook
EscortsPremier Adult Entertainment Community HOME | ADS | FORUM myredbok
Subject: "Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra" Archived thread - Read only
 
  Previous Topic | Next Topic
printerPrinter Friendly view    
Conferences > Special Interest > Community Hall > Topic #50641
Reading Topic #50641

tailchaserdude tailchaserdude rating
Member since 6-Jun-07
1826 posts, 30 feedbacks, 58 points
20-Jun-12, 07:19 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to tailchaserdude tailchaserdude profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
"Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
 
I have a question about logical consistency.

To those of you that take issue with the government of the United States gun-walking small arms to Mexican drug cartels, did you express similar righteous indignation when the government of the United States sold TOW and HAWK missiles to Iran (with the full knowledge that it was Iran that sponsored the suicide bombing of the Marines in Beirut in 1983), or did you support that earlier transfer of far more lethal weaponry?

The existence of Fast & Furious is no real surprise. It’s a common tactic of governmental operations akin to the many foiled terror plots that turn out to be heavily under the influence of U.S. government control. Government “intelligence” allows nefarious activity to proceed as a mechanism to gather intelligence, and then the illegal activity is either stopped… or not.

Harken back to Executive Action. JFK had the FBI monitoring the CIA and Operation Mongoose was allowed to continue through to fruition.

A lot of CH posters disparage the concept of conspiracy theories. It would be interesting to find out if these are the same people that believe Fast & Furious is an effort to take away citizen’s Second Amendment rights.

Anel nathrach orth bhais bethad do chiel dienmha

  Alert Top

 
Conferences | Forums | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

frankie5angels frankie5angels rating
Member since 2-Mar-05
5014 posts, 60 feedbacks, 105 points
20-Jun-12, 09:34 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to frankie5angels frankie5angels profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
1. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #0
 
I'm a transparent guy, so I'll claim executive privelege on everything. Please contribute to my re-election committee. I'm glad I'm an old fucker. I'll be dead while this country goes down the toilet. It's already circling the drain. Good luck, assholes. I could care less about all the anonymous bullshit on this forum. Goodbye and go fuck yourselfs.

  Alert Top

tailchaserdude tailchaserdude rating
Member since 6-Jun-07
1826 posts, 30 feedbacks, 58 points
20-Jun-12, 09:41 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to tailchaserdude tailchaserdude profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
2. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #1
 
That’s “yourselves,” not “yourselfs.”


Anel nathrach orth bhais bethad do chiel dienmha

  Alert Top

kallell kallell rating
Charter Member
12579 posts, 97 feedbacks, 176 points
20-Jun-12, 09:45 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to kallell kallell profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
4. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #2
 
Only every other day.

Today is the 20th, an even day so Frankie was correct and he says relax.

------
Truth, Justice and the American Way

  Alert Top

tailchaserdude tailchaserdude rating
Member since 6-Jun-07
1826 posts, 30 feedbacks, 58 points
21-Jun-12, 09:24 AM (PST)
Click to send private message to tailchaserdude tailchaserdude profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
11. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #4
 
LAST EDITED ON 21-Jun-12 AT 09:25 AM (PST)
 
This appears to be a revealing example of your mental processing prowess.


Anel nathrach orth bhais bethad do chiel dienmha

  Alert Top

kallell kallell rating
Charter Member
12579 posts, 97 feedbacks, 176 points
21-Jun-12, 02:37 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to kallell kallell profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
21. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #11
 
Appearances can be deceiving.



http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/User_files2/wq73hzp5y6g4gz04.jpg
------
Truth, Justice and the American Way

  Alert Top

Rockout Rockout rating
Member since 26-Jul-04
45201 posts, 198 feedbacks, 352 points
20-Jun-12, 09:46 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to Rockout Rockout profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
5. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #1
 
>I'm a transparent guy, so I'll claim executive privelege on
>everything. Please contribute to my re-election committee.
>I'm glad I'm an old fucker. I'll be dead while this country
>goes down the toilet. It's already circling the drain. Good
>luck, assholes. I could care less about all the anonymous
>bullshit on this forum. Goodbye and go fuck yourselfs.

You make it sound like you are 90. You need to lighten up. The world has been "decaying" forever.

  Alert Top

Rockout Rockout rating
Member since 26-Jul-04
45201 posts, 198 feedbacks, 352 points
20-Jun-12, 09:43 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to Rockout Rockout profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
3. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #0
 
>I have a question about logical consistency.
>
>To those of you that take issue with the government of the
>United States gun-walking small arms to Mexican drug
>cartels, did you express similar righteous indignation when
>the government of the United States sold TOW and HAWK
>missiles to Iran (with the full knowledge that it was Iran
>that sponsored the suicide bombing of the Marines in Beirut
>in 1983), or did you support that earlier transfer of far
>more lethal weaponry?
>
>The existence of Fast & Furious is no real surprise. It’s a
>common tactic of governmental operations akin to the many
>foiled terror plots that turn out to be heavily under the
>influence of U.S. government control. Government
>“intelligence” allows nefarious activity to proceed as a
>mechanism to gather intelligence, and then the illegal
>activity is either stopped… or not.
>
>Harken back to Executive Action. JFK had the FBI monitoring
>the CIA and Operation Mongoose was allowed to continue
>through to fruition.
>
>A lot of CH posters disparage the concept of conspiracy
>theories. It would be interesting to find out if these are
>the same people that believe Fast & Furious is an effort to
>take away citizen’s Second Amendment rights.

Efforts do not equal success though and a lot of people believe a lot of very weird shit. I believe Iraq was in part an effort to take over their oil. That totally failed so now they deny it and claim they gave one good shit about the plight of the poor Iraqis. They don't even care about Americans. Why would they care about the Iraqis?

  Alert Top

coleyounger
Member since 8-May-11
345 posts
20-Jun-12, 10:02 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to coleyounger coleyounger profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
6. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #3
 
   I tend to agree...The problem is government (AKA the politician) All these wrongs that people point out here every day and all they can do is blame this party or that party..It's both parties..It is who the people elect...I cannot see how people are so caught up in there ideology that they can't see that both parties are corrupt and unhealthy for the U.S...

  Alert Top

tailchaserdude tailchaserdude rating
Member since 6-Jun-07
1826 posts, 30 feedbacks, 58 points
20-Jun-12, 10:35 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to tailchaserdude tailchaserdude profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
7. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #6
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxkuZ1n5smM


Anel nathrach orth bhais bethad do chiel dienmha

  Alert Top

mexican_illegal mexican_illegal rating
Member since 16-Jun-12
159 posts, 2 feedbacks, 4 points
21-Jun-12, 04:33 AM (PST)
Click to send private message to mexican_illegal mexican_illegal profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
9. "A question worthy of FH"
In response to message #7
 
Do you, Governor, have an ideological consistency, or do you just reject all consistency of ideas together?

I didn't realize rejecting all consistency of ideas was an option available to us. This explains a lot (especially much of the behavior I see on these forums). Life now makes less sense.

  Alert Top

Robert_Bates Robert_Bates rating
Member since 4-May-06
1427 posts, 27 feedbacks, 36 points
21-Jun-12, 10:53 AM (PST)
Click to send private message to Robert_Bates Robert_Bates profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
14. "Wrong question, wrong answer"
In response to message #6
 
I agree both parties are corrupted by the ruling class. Citizens United guarantees it will only get worse!

You imply a false equivalence, though. One party clearly & openly favors the ruling class while other has to at least pay lip service to the middle class.

Our political choice today: "Would you rather accelerate in the wrong direction or coast in the wrong direction?"

“Master Robert” or “Mister Bates”, NOT “Master Bates"

  Alert Top

herdloose herdloose rating
Member since 26-Oct-03
3830 posts, 15 feedbacks, 27 points
21-Jun-12, 11:07 AM (PST)
Click to send private message to herdloose herdloose profileClick to add this user to your buddy list Click to send message via AOL IM  
15. "RE: Wrong question, wrong answer"
In response to message #14
 
   > while other has to at least pay lip service to the middle class.

I wanted more but will settle for lip service, although it's not free.

“Yet each man kills the thing he loves, By each let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word. The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword!”
Oscar Wilde

  Alert Top

Jacket1 Jacket1 rating
Charter Member
34925 posts, 52 feedbacks, 68 points
21-Jun-12, 11:18 AM (PST)
Jacket1 profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
16. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #3
 
   >I believe Iraq was in part an effort to take over their oil.

That's like saying you need to "take over" McDonalds to eat. You want a burger, you buy one. You want oil, you buy it. The world is flush with oil. It's cheaper to buy oil than steal it.

  Alert Top

tailchaserdude tailchaserdude rating
Member since 6-Jun-07
1826 posts, 30 feedbacks, 58 points
21-Jun-12, 11:27 AM (PST)
Click to send private message to tailchaserdude tailchaserdude profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
17. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #16
 
U.N. to let Iraq sell oil for euros, not dollars

October 30, 2000
Web posted at: 8:45 PM EST (0145 GMT)

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) -- A U.N. panel on Monday approved Iraq's plan to receive oil-export payments in Europe's single currency after Baghdad decided to move the start date back a week.

Members of the Security Council's Iraqi sanctions committee said the panel's chairman, Dutch Ambassador Peter van Walsum, would inform U.N. officials on Tuesday of the decision to allow Iraq to receive payments in euros, rather than dollars.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast/10/30/iraq.un.euro.reut/

Anel nathrach orth bhais bethad do chiel dienmha

  Alert Top

hoodini hoodini rating
Member since 1-Apr-12
620 posts, 2 feedbacks, 1 points
21-Jun-12, 11:35 AM (PST)
hoodini profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
18. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #16
 
   The question is not how and where to buy oil but who profits from it. There are staggering profits to be made from the oil and gas in the Middle East.

The American military has mostly been used to serve and protect corporate profits around the globe. That is why we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Having the most powerful military on earth we were able to invade them to make sure that western oil companies were the ones to make the money and not Russian or Chinese companies.

  Alert Top

Rockout Rockout rating
Member since 26-Jul-04
45201 posts, 198 feedbacks, 352 points
21-Jun-12, 01:07 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to Rockout Rockout profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
20. "RE: Fast & Furious vs. Iran-Contra"
In response to message #16
 
>>I believe Iraq was in part an effort to take over their oil.
>
>That's like saying you need to "take over" McDonalds to eat.
> You want a burger, you buy one. You want oil, you buy it.
>The world is flush with oil. It's cheaper to buy oil than
>steal it.

I made no statement about "needing" to do anything Captain Strawman. In this case you are right. We could have bought a shitload of oil and saved a lot of money. Too bad the fucks you supported didn't see it that way. It would have saved us all a lot of trouble.

  Alert Top

mexican_illegal mexican_illegal rating
Member since 16-Jun-12
159 posts, 2 feedbacks, 4 points
21-Jun-12, 04:15 AM (PST)
Click to send private message to mexican_illegal mexican_illegal profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
8. "valid points"
In response to message #0
 
I'm going to play Devil's advocate, for a moment:

Is there (I don't know, I'm asking) a difference when the DOJ acts (and sells arms) vs. the DOD? Or DOJ vs. State? Should there be?

DOJ hasn't done anything like this before (that I know of). But other departments under the executive branch, like you point out, yes. They have done far worse. The Salvadoran Civil War comes to mind.

Damn. Did a shitty job as Devil's advocate.

  Alert Top

coleyounger
Member since 8-May-11
345 posts
21-Jun-12, 05:49 AM (PST)
Click to send private message to coleyounger coleyounger profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
10. "RE: valid points"
In response to message #8
 
   "Did a shitty job as Devil's advocate."
Not really..There is no difference..Government agencies are government agencies. There is a directive be it legislative or administrative. The directive come from the politicians in any case.

  Alert Top

tailchaserdude tailchaserdude rating
Member since 6-Jun-07
1826 posts, 30 feedbacks, 58 points
21-Jun-12, 09:46 AM (PST)
Click to send private message to tailchaserdude tailchaserdude profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
12. "RE: valid points"
In response to message #8
 
"Gunwalking" or "letting guns walk" was a tactic whereby the ATF knowingly allowed thousands of guns to be bought by suspected arms traffickers ("gunrunners") working through straw purchasers on behalf of Mexican drug cartels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Fast & Furious, by all appearances, was a bad idea and accountability is necessary. This thread’s only question is about context.

In Fast & Furious the USG PASSIVELY allowed illegal arms trafficking.
In Iran-Contra the USG ACTIVELY conducted illegal arms trafficking.

The rabid right is frothing at the mouth over USG gunwalking.
The rabid right stuck its head in the sand over USG Arms Export Control Act violations.

Anel nathrach orth bhais bethad do chiel dienmha

  Alert Top

hoodini hoodini rating
Member since 1-Apr-12
620 posts, 2 feedbacks, 1 points
21-Jun-12, 10:00 AM (PST)
hoodini profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
13. "RE: valid points"
In response to message #12
 
   The rabid right has been ignoring and/or outright supporting all kinds of outrageous and criminal things that the American government has done over the decades.

They only get all worked up and faux horrified over something like this gunwalking mini-scandal because they need something to bash Obama about during an election campaign.

It is interesting and useful to note that this seems to be the worst that they can come up with.

  Alert Top

coleyounger
Member since 8-May-11
345 posts
22-Jun-12, 06:52 AM (PST)
Click to send private message to coleyounger coleyounger profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
25. "RE: valid points"
In response to message #13
 
   "gunwalking mini-scandal" ?

Hoodini,
are you suggesting this is a scandal? Is the Obama administration trying to hide something? What is "mini" about a border patrol agent getting killed and likely many Mexican citizens? This "mini-scandel" as you put it violated Mexican and U.S. law...Are you suggesting that the government can violate there own laws and that of a sovereign nation? Please clear this up for me....

  Alert Top

mexican_illegal mexican_illegal rating
Member since 16-Jun-12
159 posts, 2 feedbacks, 4 points
21-Jun-12, 11:54 AM (PST)
Click to send private message to mexican_illegal mexican_illegal profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
19. "RE: valid points"
In response to message #12
 
The difference between gunwalking and Iran-Contra, was that Iran-Contra was manifestley illegal, while gunwallking was just dumb.

Obama/Holder didn't have to resort to "If the president does it, it is not illegal" with gunwalking.

  Alert Top

tailchaserdude tailchaserdude rating
Member since 6-Jun-07
1826 posts, 30 feedbacks, 58 points
21-Jun-12, 07:59 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to tailchaserdude tailchaserdude profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
22. "RE: valid points"
In response to message #19
 
“This looks an awful lot like Iran Contra,” Issa said. “When a government agency makes a mistake they stall, delay and cover up. That’s what’s happening here.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/17/issa-we-do-know-decisions-for-gunrunner-fast-and-furious-were-made-in-washington/#ixzz1yUGmE3nZ

Anel nathrach orth bhais bethad do chiel dienmha

  Alert Top

mexican_illegal mexican_illegal rating
Member since 16-Jun-12
159 posts, 2 feedbacks, 4 points
21-Jun-12, 11:36 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to mexican_illegal mexican_illegal profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
23. "RE: valid points"
In response to message #22
 
My point is that there is no equivalent of the Boland Amendment to limit the executive branch from acting in the way that it did.

That's why Iran-Contra was so bad. Selling arms to the Contras was specifically prohibited by act of Congress.

  Alert Top

tailchaserdude tailchaserdude rating
Member since 6-Jun-07
1826 posts, 30 feedbacks, 58 points
21-Jun-12, 11:58 PM (PST)
Click to send private message to tailchaserdude tailchaserdude profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
24. "RE: valid points"
In response to message #23
 
I don’t disagree with you. The quote above is Issa stating equivalence when there is no real equivalence. And there was another thread by a poster that obviously doesn’t understand what happened in the Iran-Contra Affair also claiming equivalence. http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID14/50603.html

For Issa to claim that the F&F operation is equivalent to the I/C operations demonstrates the naked political gamesmanship that is being played.

Anel nathrach orth bhais bethad do chiel dienmha

  Alert Top

Conferences | Forums | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

   reviews | join vip | metasearch | terms of use | privacy top | help | faq    ©2011 myRedBook S.A.