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MissSasha MissSasha rating
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26-Aug-10, 12:28 PM (PST)
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"Boundaries"
 
   In light of the tragic murder/suicide that has happened, I have had several thoughts running through my mind. What I write is just my opinion and I would like to know what your thoughts are.

#1.Reference checking is a must, but not fail proof and cannot be expected to deem a client reliable, safe, or trustworthy...it just means he/she/they have not done anything to date that has caused any red flags or has possibly slipped through the cracks with identity/info changes. Never let your guard down.

#2.Although providers do everything they can to make something professional feel personal for the time that is spent, professional boundaries must always be kept. It is what it is.

#3.This profession is a risk, for all parties involved....hobbyists, be careful, you too can lose your life...ladies have personal lives, estranged lovers or ex's...an obsessed client like the man featured in the most recent story that could have included you into the year's murder statistics.
Ladies....the man who did this is not the first or the last. Remember that when you are reaching the threshold of possibly crossing over into a personal relationship or manipulating a client into thinking it's more than what it is for the sake of personal gain.

Although I do not know the facts of their relationship...I would say that based on the fact that they met on here...he was a client. Based on what others have said he was "well to do". I would say that him being well to do, her being on RB and a single mother of 3 going to school, that she may have possibly utilized his adoration of her to her benefit.

I would strongly suggest to anyone, male or female, that you do NOT play with people's emotions. Bad things can come of it.

That being said, it may have nothing to do with this situation, it is merely my thoughts.

I hope and pray that this incident will be the last for a long while, but the reality of it is that it won't. This is sad, and mostly for her children I am grieving. I hope that the family can and will collectively stand up and care for these babies that have no mother. I couldn't even imagine what that feels like, especially at those ages.

I want to say that it feels so good and my heart swells to see the collaboration of some really good people on here...it says a lot about what this community really is about when it all comes down to handling business and doing the right thing.

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longquickii longquickii rating
Member since 24-Jul-08
1097 posts, 20 feedbacks, 34 points
26-Aug-10, 01:27 PM (PST)
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1. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #0
 
My thought about this is just this.

As sad and unfortunate as that situation appears, none of us really know all that was going on there and therefore we should not presume to pontificate about it.

Insofar as your points, I find that as I read them that they are really just from a PROVIDER'S POV and that in that sense your statement really belongs in Pinkbook.

"It's only a hobby, right?"

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Mrgetsome24 Mrgetsome24 rating
Member since 12-Nov-09
452 posts, 4 feedbacks, 8 points
26-Aug-10, 01:56 PM (PST)
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2. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #1
 
   Well you both make some good points.Yes that is terrible what happened.It seems people forgot(at least some),that this is a business.Always has been.

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AmandaLee AmandaLee rating
Member since 9-Apr-08
1393 posts, 49 feedbacks, 95 points
26-Aug-10, 04:14 PM (PST)
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5. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #1
 
" just from a PROVIDER'S POV "

The Sac Lounge is not a Hobbiest only board. There is one..this just isn't it. Sasha made some of the same points that have been made in recent threads on this matter and doesn't desearve to be banished over to PB with her "Providery notions". Just? really? JUST?

As for the fact that she may have been playing him and it went wrong. Hmmmm...I've seen it go wrong with NO "signals" or "$ requests" or "favors" given or asked for by a provider. Sometimes men just fall in "love" and don't get it that this isn't Match.com.
It often starts in the into email. Talking about how handsome they are, how much money they have, how they want to wine and dine you and make you feel like a woman....blah blah blah.

I have to run...thank you for reading my post. Even though I'm just a provider.

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summerrayne summerrayne rating
Member since 27-Apr-09
3130 posts, 78 feedbacks, 150 points
26-Aug-10, 09:45 PM (PST)
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7. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #5
 
LAST EDITED ON 26-Aug-10 AT 09:47 PM (PST)
 
Dittos to what AmandaLee & MissSasha said.

I drove into the driveway at one of the massage houses (everyone had gone home for the night/was with my little one) to find a stalker-hobbyist pruning my hedges.

He called and texted me like a crackhead and drove by the house when I didn't answer back (I lived elsewhere).

Had to change my pseudonym/disengage from the collectives, and change my number three times to shake him.

It was scary.

It's always Summer at my place! xoxo
p.s.

If something horrific happened to a hobbyist and father of young children - compassionate Hearts would share on both PB AND RB.

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Pitt Pitt rating
Member since 3-Oct-02
2202 posts, 102 feedbacks, 176 points
26-Aug-10, 10:11 PM (PST)
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9. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #1
 
"your statement really belongs in Pinkbook"


Why longquickii? The "stupid Ho's" should stand down and keep their opinions to themselves?

Sasha's post is relevant to recent discussions in this forum and I enjoyed reading her post. Maybe you should post in Pinkbook?


The Mighty Magical Wizard of Pussy

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CarrotTop
Member since 9-Mar-10
46 posts
27-Aug-10, 00:13 AM (PST)
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10. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #9
 
   Pitt I was thinking the same thing, as I like to read post from Sasha myself.....

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sexysexy sexysexy rating
Member since 1-Dec-04
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27-Aug-10, 08:17 AM (PST)
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14. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #1
 
   No it belongs here! She is right! I don't know the info about her or what happen. Can some body inbox me info? Did they catch the guy? Is she from Sacramento?

I am sure they have info in Pink book and they should in nieghborhood watch matter fact it should be in every forum in all capps!!!

I know for the good guys that want to see a lady in the upcoming weeks it may be a lil harder to get in with a provider.

Because i would hope every rb sister here will screen calls well!

This time of year is always slow because kids are returning to school. Things will pick up after the 5th or 6th so just hang on young ladies.

Its gonna get better so if you get a bad vibe just don't take him! I know its hard when you need money and its been slow. But its better that you lose the money and not your life!


colleen massage therapist

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ManWhore69 ManWhore69 rating
Member since 16-Dec-07
1867 posts, 33 feedbacks, 61 points
26-Aug-10, 02:26 PM (PST)
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3. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON 26-Aug-10 AT 02:31 PM (PST)
 
There are ALWAYS going to be hobbyist who are going to have unhealthy boundaries in this "Hobby".

We spend endless hours shilling, supporting and seeking providers who have that intuitive ability to alter our reality for an hour or two- making us believe and live in that moment as though this stunning beauty is YOUR personal, intimate lover. The true GFE.

Shit... most of us LOVE living in the high moments of that hour- connected and intimate - the "rush" is the ultimate thrill. The providers that can pull that off are the who are most successful in this business.

At the end of that hour (or two) and that glorious "NUT" we get at the end signifies the closure of that reality and its back to the wife, kids and that fuckin upsidedown mortgage! However, the statistics are probably pretty freakin good that sooner or later, every provider is gonna get someone who doesn't "SNAP" outta that alternate reality - begins to OBSESS and that unhealthy obsession grows and things get ugly.

Lets keep it real. Many providers "push" the envelope with these guys. Many of them become "Tricks" who will gladly loan them money - pay their rent on a bad month, buy a replacement cell... etc.. we've all heard the stories and the bitching from guys over and over again - year after year... but many providers are good at this - actually many are EXPERTS at finding and working these guys. I know providers that are so intuitive they can walk in the Mixer room and in 60 seconds know exactly which one is the "easy lick" ... the SCARY part is knowing or NOT KNOWING which is the dangerously obsessed one.

If you've been in the business long enough- EVERY provider has had one. Reading the signs and being conscious of the potential dangers aren't skills all the ladies have.

I think many of the Providers here are being compassionate about this particular case because its hits close to home and a terrible reminder of what could happen.

As hobbyists, we've seen and heard of fellow hobbyist like this and often times they are removed from Private forums or dis-invited from Mixers... but I suspect many of them are loner - unseen by most of us guys.

Its always a good idea to bring this topic up and re-hash it publicly.

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counsel counsel rating
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26-Aug-10, 09:02 PM (PST)
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6. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #3
 
LAST EDITED ON 26-Aug-10 AT 09:11 PM (PST)
 
I'm the guy they can pick out in 60 seconds although to me it happens more in strip clubs. One girl ended up taking me for about $4k (I "loaned" her more after the first $2k) and more recently Morgan took me for about $3k...but I still love her!

Jedi Master Yoda of the Strip Clubs

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Seductive_shyla Seductive_shyla rating
Member since 10-Aug-09
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26-Aug-10, 03:57 PM (PST)
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4. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #0
 

-mssasha
Although providers do everything they can to make something professional feel personal for the time that is spent..

-This profession is a risk, for all parties involved....hobbyists, be careful, you too can lose your life...ladies have personal lives, estranged lovers or ex's...an obsessed client.

-Mrgetsome24
Well you both make some good points.Yes that is terrible what happened.It seems people forgot(at least some),that this is a business.Always has been.


-manwhore69
There are ALWAYS going to be hobbyist who are going to have unhealthy boundaries in this "Hobby".


I TRUELY agree. Be extra careful, and Yes buisness is buissness, and not always can you make a friend out of this buissness. It rarely ever happens to fall together, without him wanting to "feel like your friend" coming over to your house, (never) hanging out on the weekends without donations as friends,(occasionally, sure) jealous when your posting ads and working, etc. (sobs) all of these are some things to look out for, I have experiences with some of my clients where some are willing and gladly help you get where you want to be so you can quit, and then you get the ones that will help you (maybe just so they can feel closer to you) That complain/sobs when they help you, my advice, go for the one that wants to keep it buissness and still have a nice relationship that you can call a friend that dont expect the extras. I tend to like those best, Then reward them in the end. Pushy one's that make me feel awkward never get rewards, just keep getting what they don't want. Nothing!

A true friend in this buissness isn't reality intil the provider is retired, and then even then some dont want anything to do with you.

My heart goes out to the provider's children, And for now on, I will be extra careful. Even More for my own.

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escritic escritic rating
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26-Aug-10, 09:57 PM (PST)
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8. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #4
 

So you only want to associate to men that will pay you and help you pretty much unconditionally. Do you want them to lick the bottom of your shoes clean and walk your dogs as well?

BTW, here is my freebie to you (and no, I don't want to "feel like your friend"). Try pushy ones instead of "pushy one's" and until instead of "intil".


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bats bats rating
Member since 18-May-08
2063 posts, 65 feedbacks, 121 points
27-Aug-10, 01:39 AM (PST)
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11. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #8
 
LAST EDITED ON 27-Aug-10 AT 01:42 AM (PST)
 
>So you only want to associate to men that will pay you and
>help you pretty much unconditionally.

She's looking at things from a business perspective, as all of us should strive to do. Certainly we can become fond of some of our providers (I do) but boundaries have to be understood.

Would you expect your esteemed automotive technician, the one who always takes care of you in exactly the way you expect, to do things for you that you didn't pay for? After he changes your timing belt and replaces your crank seal, do you then expect him to call you to chat?

The condition IS the money. That's it. Nothing more.

>Do you want them to lick the bottom of your shoes clean
>and walk your dogs as well?

She's not suggesting that. She just wants to keep the transaction a transaction. So should you.

>BTW, here is my freebie to you (and no, I don't want to
>"feel like your friend"). Try pushy ones instead of "pushy
>one's" and until instead of "intil".

Critiquing Shyla's English usage here is not only unnecessary to the discussion, but also funny considering that you seem to think that people associate "to" each other, and not "with" each other.

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maljay3
Member since 8-Jun-10
12 posts
27-Aug-10, 08:05 AM (PST)
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12. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #11
 
   I missed the underlying event that lead to this discussion?
Where is that posted?

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Proximo
Member since 11-Dec-02
1486 posts
27-Aug-10, 08:12 AM (PST)
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13. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #12
 
   http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID21/38880.html

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escritic escritic rating
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27-Aug-10, 12:29 PM (PST)
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17. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #11
 
Awesome. I thrive to improve myself and I do acknowledge my grammar mistake. Thank you for the correction.

While we are at it, have you ever heard of term double negative?

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sexysexy sexysexy rating
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27-Aug-10, 08:32 AM (PST)
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15. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #8
 
   Does that make u feel better? Are you a teacher? Are we in english class? Is this a spelling bee? WTF I just knew the next post was gonna be OMG she miss spelled a few words.

We are talking about a human being that has been murdered. We can all agree to disagree with out getting all fucken butt hurt about it.

colleen massage therapist

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escritic escritic rating
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27-Aug-10, 12:41 PM (PST)
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19. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #15
 
It doesn't make me feel better or superior. Do you feel that you can do whatever you please because you are a woman? Do you feel that you should receive special treatment because you are female? Do you lack the motivation to improve yourself because you are a prostitute?

People get murdered everyday all over the world. What makes her so special? Because she is a whore like you? Ever heard of Pat Tillman?

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randicus randicus rating
Member since 6-Jan-05
1097 posts, 10 feedbacks, 20 points
27-Aug-10, 02:47 PM (PST)
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21. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #19
 
>It doesn't make me feel better or superior. Do you feel that
>you can do whatever you please because you are a woman? Do
>you feel that you should receive special treatment because
>you are female? Do you lack the motivation to improve
>yourself because you are a prostitute?
>
>People get murdered everyday all over the world. What makes
>her so special? Because she is a whore like you? Ever heard
>of Pat Tillman?
>
>

Man do you sound bitter.

By the way did it make you feel superior to try to make her feel inferior?

Is that how you are able to walk tall by cutting down people around you?

You might want to think about that. It doesn't make you really look good.

-Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

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escritic escritic rating
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27-Aug-10, 03:34 PM (PST)
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23. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #21
 

I am bitter. Does my bitterness make my point less valid? Does your personal attack of my character make you look swell? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite? Yes, you may want to think about that.

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bats bats rating
Member since 18-May-08
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27-Aug-10, 04:46 PM (PST)
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24. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #23
 
LAST EDITED ON 27-Aug-10 AT 04:47 PM (PST)
 
>I am bitter. Does my bitterness make my point less valid?

Yes, it does. Your bitterness taints your outlook, which seems to be that you think all women are out to use you. That's a distorted view, probably caused by God-only-knows what happened to you as you were growing up. Don't blame women for your fucked up view of them.

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MissSasha MissSasha rating
Member since 8-Dec-03
4530 posts, 47 feedbacks, 90 points
28-Aug-10, 05:29 PM (PST)
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25. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #24
 
   LAST EDITED ON 28-Aug-10 AT 05:35 PM (PST)
 
Well..I think it would be safe to say that there are men and women with distorted views based on their negative life experiences...and a distorted view due to chemical imbalances and/or mood disorders...but on the other end of the spectrum there are men and women who use negative life experiences, both their own and others, to learn and grow from.

I am a woman. I am run by emotion, which is why I made the original post...the story moved me and prompted me to post. I was drawn into this business by need. I never knowingly harmed anyone, and tried my best to make everyone I met happy. I consider myself a good, kind, loving woman that is worthy of respect. Please don't place a blanket judgement on all women because if you think about it really hard.....in all of your bad situations....what, or whom shall I say, was the common denominator?

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randicus randicus rating
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27-Aug-10, 08:41 AM (PST)
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16. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #8
 
>
>So you only want to associate to men that will pay you and
>help you pretty much unconditionally. Do you want them to
>lick the bottom of your shoes clean and walk your dogs as
>well?
>
>BTW, here is my freebie to you (and no, I don't want to
>"feel like your friend"). Try pushy ones instead of "pushy
>one's" and until instead of "intil".
>
>
>

Well if you are worried about any woman treating you like that then you can do as I do.

I too in my younger days, have been basically used by women. Sometimes I had such a low self esteem that I actually let them, because I didn't think I deserved better.

Well I have grown up since then. And a good lesson I learned with any woman not just a provider. Always show a woman respect. But do not show her kindness unless she is going out with you.

You wouldn't believe how that simple rule has changed my life with women. First I only do favors for women and expect nothing in return if the woman is going out with me. A SO or GF. Otherwise I try to get something in return. One girl asked me for a ride for some errands she needed to run. I said that is fine but you will be washing my car after we are done. She agreed. So she washed my car. I find that women have more respect for you if they have to do something in return. It doesn't even have to be of equal value but make them do something. Cook you dinner, Sew a button on a shirt, something.

That has worked out great for me. Oh, and if she doesn't come through with her part. I don't do another thing for her until she makes it up to me in some way.

This has worked out great in my life since I started doing it this way. If only I acted this way when I was younger. Still never too old to learn.

-Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

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escritic escritic rating
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18. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #16
 

That is an interesting topic. Thank you for the unique insight.

I am not worrying about any woman treating me like that. I just sense that is her prerogative from her post. That seems like the trend nowadays, especially in RB, hence the lapdogism.


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MissSasha MissSasha rating
Member since 8-Dec-03
4530 posts, 47 feedbacks, 90 points
27-Aug-10, 02:06 PM (PST)
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20. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #18
 
   LAST EDITED ON 27-Aug-10 AT 02:08 PM (PST)
 
People are killed everywhere, everyday, all day long...yes this is true....

That being said...how often is it that we find such a crime being connected to our own RB community? Yes, we have CL killers, CL stalkers, RB weirdos that fly under the radar....but how often is this site highlighted as the connection point between the killer and the killed?

It just opened a thought process and helped me renew some of my own thinking...how comfortable I once was on RB back in 2003 when I initially joined. It was almost a feeling of instant comfortability when s gentleman caller would say "Hey, this is XXX from RB". Things have changed and to compare today with just 5-7 years ago, I'm amazed at how horrible things have become....quickly declining.

Life is about learning and my intuition is pretty good. I've only found myself in 2 scary situations and both of those were when I let the saying "all money isn't good money" fly out the door. I learned from that...but what could have become of me? I could be a statistic. I still can become a statistic...of some sort. There are no guarantees.

I will never allow myself to become so desensitized that I chalk a death like this up to the profession and that she was just a thing, not a human being that had life...and brought forth life in this world that now has to go without her.

I am sad at ALL death, that's just how I feel.

As we discuss in my philosophy class....this would not be considered a "necessary evil". This was just plain ol' evil....and I hate that.

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camel777
Member since 2-May-10
13 posts
27-Aug-10, 03:14 PM (PST)
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22. "RE: Boundaries"
In response to message #16
 
> ... I find that women have more respect for you if they have to do >something in return. It doesn't even have to be of equal value but >make them do something. Cook you dinner, Sew a button on a shirt, >something.

very good advice, thank you

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