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Reading Topic #11753

stevev333
Member since 11-Dec-09
9 posts
08-Aug-10, 10:17 PM (PST)
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"Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
 
   Original thread here:
http://forum.myredbook.com/cgi-bin/dcforum2/dcboard.pl?az=show_thread&om=11067&forum=DCForumID27

Like the original poster, I recently saw a not-quite-so-new, positively-reviewed and popular-seeming provider, and had solidly mediocre service.

After some consideration (a couple weeks), I left a detailed and honest review. It managed to become visible to non-VIP and stay up for a couple days before being removed.

As it turns out, it was the same provider as from the original thread. (TantricPlayer noticed my review while it was still up and inbox'd about it).

In the other thread, people suggested:

1. Contact her and work something out, maybe 'she had a bad day'. TantricPlayer did this, and the end result is just one-sided information for future potential clients like me, and no change in service.

2. Write an honest review. I've just seen how well that works in the fbsm world. Without any notice/reply from the admin about why a review is removed, one must assume providers simply have the ability to have any reviews removed. I'd be happy to edit it for some minor error if I knew what it were.

3. Write a 'coded' review where readers need to read into what isn't said compared to my other reviews, or otherwise damn-with-faint-praise. This is a lot more laborious (both to write and to read), and I'm skeptical providers won't eventually realize what's going on and have those removed too.

I wonder if there are other options.

Perhaps we need a list of providers who aggressively sanitize reviews, similar to the list who use fake pics.

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notmeithink
Member since 22-Feb-09
2778 posts
08-Aug-10, 10:21 PM (PST)
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1. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #0
 
   Here is an option: post a review here.

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bilbaox bilbaox rating
Member since 27-Nov-05
1164 posts, 13 feedbacks, 26 points
08-Aug-10, 10:48 PM (PST)
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2. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #1
 
#3 works 4 me. Guyz seem 2 understand. None removed yet.

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Gnusey
Charter Member
3186 posts
08-Aug-10, 10:48 PM (PST)
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3. "Rhubarb"
In response to message #1
 
Here's a thought. How about adopting a code word. Veteran PLs would recognize that the provider is substandard, no matter what else is said in the review.

I suggest a word that would be conspicuous and at the same time unlikely to turn up in any ordinary description.

How about "rhubarb"?

"She provided excellent service in her elegantly appointed massage space. She was kind enough to share her recipe for rhubarb pie."

http://bit.ly/cq188N

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RebeccaSage RebeccaSage rating
Member since 25-Jul-09
897 posts, 17 feedbacks, 31 points
08-Aug-10, 11:45 PM (PST)
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4. "RE: Rhubarb"
In response to message #3
 
>> "She provided excellent service in her elegantly appointed massage space. She was kind enough to share her recipe for rhubarb pie." <<

Yes, yes...but was the rhubarb pie any good?!

Sorry Gnusey, just couldn't resist!

Rebecca

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doublenuts doublenuts rating
Member since 25-Apr-05
275 posts, 7 feedbacks, 14 points
09-Aug-10, 11:03 PM (PST)
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8. "RE: Rhubarb"
In response to message #3
 
   Now THAT was funny! However, I do love hot rhubarb pie, with Naked Coconut Bliss on top...so I may not be able to use that code. On the other hand, rhubarb is pretty tart, so it may work after all!

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sexysexy sexysexy rating
Member since 1-Dec-04
2193 posts, 31 feedbacks, 51 points
10-Aug-10, 08:04 AM (PST)
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10. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #1
 
   How about giving the guy some of his money back? We are women and we have bad days or some times people just don't click. I know for fbsm ladies you can give him the s in fbsm money back and just charge for the massage.
But the f/s ladies idk what they can do. Mabe next visit give discount or extra pop or time.

colleen massage therapist

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Mr_Pitt Mr_Pitt rating
Member since 26-Sep-05
1129 posts, 9 feedbacks, 17 points
09-Aug-10, 00:43 AM (PST)
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5. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #0
 
   Write an honest mini here. The reviews are basically useless. As I said in another string, I look for the reviewers that give the lowest marks, and then see what they give other providers. If someone gives one of the very well reviewed girls a 7 or even an 8, and they give someone else 10s, well that is probably saying something.

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stook2005
Member since 27-Jul-09
28 posts
09-Aug-10, 09:04 AM (PST)
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6. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #0
 
   Stevev333,

I saw your review before it was pulled. I actually seen that provider twice and I had to agree on most of your criticism. Seen her twice because she was attractive enough and I was thinking maybe she had an off day. It's one of those cases where they show their faces in the photos and they look worse in person. Looks-face(7-GND), her reviews are (9s and 10s). Actually...her photos would put her in the 9s and 10s. She's definitely photogenic. From my memory, the therapeutic and sensual were both below average. Oh yeah, she was fully nude.


Anyway, she's presently on vacation. Hopefully she gets better when she gets back. Also, I noticed she increased her rate. That implies she's fairly popular.


-stook2005

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GroundShark GroundShark rating
Member since 17-Feb-04
351 posts, 7 feedbacks, 8 points
09-Aug-10, 07:35 PM (PST)
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7. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #6
 
   Can you inbox me the provider? Sounds like an experience I had. If she's
not NBay though them nevermind...it must be someone else

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notmeithink
Member since 22-Feb-09
2778 posts
10-Aug-10, 08:06 AM (PST)
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11. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #7
 
   It might be Suvii. I read the review. It stayed up for about 3 minutes. I think you talk honestly about her without hurting her feelings. I doubt she even posts for herself.

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kenny_starr kenny_starr rating
Charter Member
209 posts, 2 feedbacks, 4 points
09-Aug-10, 11:50 PM (PST)
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9. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #0
 
   I'm pretty sure I know who you are referring to.

I wrote an honest review of this provider and it wasn't pulled. I don't recall seeing yours, not that I don't believe you.

I'm all for writing honest reviews, that is what RB is for, but then again, I've been here since almost the beginning.

mini reviews aren't bad, but the problem is that not everyone checks the forum, plus they aren't as detailed.

as has been previously mentioned, this forum is very provider friendly. I'm not sure if a list of providers who aggressively sanitize reviews would be do-able. it might be if you were able to set up a private forum.

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TempleOfBliss
Member since 30-Dec-02
1499 posts
11-Aug-10, 10:04 PM (PST)
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12. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #9
 
   In the previous thread, Amber Stone asked if you had tried to convey your feelings during the session, i.e. guide her in how you would like to be touched?

And if so, and she still was trying to uncork you, then:
YPMV(Your Penis May Vary) as code in the review for if you want your head pulled off?

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stook2005
Member since 27-Jul-09
28 posts
11-Aug-10, 10:27 PM (PST)
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13. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #12
 
   I respectfully disagree on this point. They're charging top rates for a professional service. You don't expect to go to a lawyer and expect to help him do his job while paying his full rate. Or the same with a mechanic. You expect to sit back and let them take care of everything. Obviously as a client, you have to tell the provider your likes and dislikes, but you do expect a minimum level of competency.


-stook2005

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doublenuts doublenuts rating
Member since 25-Apr-05
275 posts, 7 feedbacks, 14 points
12-Aug-10, 01:33 PM (PST)
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14. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #0
 
   Redbook should explain why this review was removed. It sounds like a fair and balanced account was given. Perhaps the "manager" of this provider had it removed?

We deserve fair disclosure. If a manager is the one answering e-mails and posting on this site, using the provider's name....well, at best it is a deceptive practice. And if the provider doesn't even read the reviews...there is little chance that the content will even matter to her.

Yet these reviews are very important to the men who are seeking new providers.

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oralio oralio rating
Member since 1-Dec-03
35980 posts, 126 feedbacks, 215 points
12-Aug-10, 02:01 PM (PST)
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15. "bad massage? too bad."
In response to message #0
 
Prior threads in this forum have revealed that hobbyists refuse to give negative reviews of most fbsm providers.

Do we need to know anything else about the review process as it applies to fbsm?

Let me remind everyone of the bottomline reality of hobbying -- you are NOT paying in order to get the services promised or hinted in the ad.

No, you pay for the OPPORTUNITY TO FIND OUT IF you will get the services promised or hinted in the ad.

If you don't get those services in the manner you hoped, or even were promised, you do not get a partial refund. And if you do not write a negative review, then you are empowering that provider to continue giving such service, and you are perpetuating the potential exploitation of all other hobbyists who follow you.

Be the change
you wish to see

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TantricPlayer TantricPlayer rating
Member since 6-Jul-09
189 posts, 1 feedbacks, 1 points
12-Aug-10, 02:48 PM (PST)
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16. "RE: bad massage? too bad."
In response to message #15
 
   Maybe there needs to be a 3 strikes rule. No one wants to ruin someone's livelihood and that's what a bad review does, especially when we think all good reviews are shills. So, a lot of us would rather post nothing or something meaningless. However, if we knew a bad unseen review could be kept as part of a trend, that would only be seen after 3 bad ones in a year, then it would feel like we were having control. Anything else is potentially just griping about one bad day/YMMV occurrence.

Watching who reviews, and contacting reviews via Inbox has proven very valuable. More and more info is being shared on back channels, for better or worse.

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oralio oralio rating
Member since 1-Dec-03
35980 posts, 126 feedbacks, 215 points
12-Aug-10, 07:43 PM (PST)
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20. "RE: bad massage? too bad."
In response to message #16
 
"No one wants to ruin someone's livelihood and that's what a bad review does,"

That view doesn't remotely resemble the truth, IMO.

A bad review does little to negatively impact a provider for very long, according to everything I've seen and heard. If it does, then it's because she's a crappy provider.

Good providers always rise above an occasional bad review.

As for your three strikes idea, I don't have a clear grasp on how it would be tracked and enforced.

Be the change
you wish to see

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billydetroit billydetroit rating
Member since 23-Jan-07
2938 posts, 152 feedbacks, 267 points
13-Aug-10, 06:22 AM (PST)
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24. "RE: bad massage? too bad."
In response to message #20
 
LAST EDITED ON 13-Aug-10 AT 06:57 AM (PST)
 
>>No one wants to ruin someone's livelihood and that's what a bad review does<<


I have many reviews, and especially in my earlier ones, you'll find that they are not all good. I took them as lessons and I improved. Even when the more critical reviews were current, I still got plenty of calls; It certainly didn't "ruin my livelihood".

I like Bailey Reed's comment.. Why not resubmit deleted reviews, but word it a little differently, see if it will stick?

Also, like D'Nuts said, if we can FIND OUT what makes reviews ELIGIBLE for dismissal- such as incorrect contact info & services/prices- that way the reviewer can put more thought into keeping it honest but while avoiding leaving any loopholes which might make it easy to have deleted.

The young beauty you guys are mentioning who has had all of her bad reviews deleted has probably never even seen those reviews. I'm not sure how much you can blame a girl for the stuff her, ahem, 'management' does. xo bd

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stevev333
Member since 11-Dec-09
9 posts
13-Aug-10, 07:49 AM (PST)
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25. "RE: bad massage? too bad."
In response to message #24
 
   I have in fact rewritten my review in a different style and resubmitted it. It requires more careful reading, so I'm somewhat less happy with it, but we'll see what happens. If it's removed again I doubt I'll bother with another try.

The removal criteria is covered in the reviews faq if you read carefully. Though I'd prefer it were different, it is an understandable position for the admin to take.

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Falstaff
Charter Member
1586 posts
12-Aug-10, 07:53 PM (PST)
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21. "RE: bad massage? too bad."
In response to message #16
 
   In theory that may work but it assumes that the scorekeeper would be honest and count to three. As no one would see the reviews it would be impossible for anyone else to know how many "bad" reviews there were.

Put me in the camp that says calling her afterwards and telling her you did not have a good time is a bad idea. I don''t know why he would do it and I don't think many of the conversations would turn out good. If I didn't have a good time the last thing I want to do is revisit it.

I have alwys favored posting the reviews and allowing her to post a rebuttal. As it is now, it takes longer for the good and bad providers to be separated out. I still think it happens but a lot slower than it would if information was more open.

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baily_reed baily_reed rating
Member since 3-Nov-09
385 posts, 11 feedbacks, 20 points
12-Aug-10, 02:53 PM (PST)
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17. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #0
 
LAST EDITED ON 12-Aug-10 AT 02:55 PM (PST)
 
Yes, we can all have a bad day, though it's beginning to sound like this isn't just a bad day situation.

For the purposes of posting and honest review and having it pulled, if at first you do not succeed, try and try again! Without losing the integrity of what you are wanting to convey, restructure or reword your prose perhaps. Be your own copywriter for a day. It's so so so important that honest reviews are written. I don't know who pulls the strings on why reviews are pulled... but I agree with D'Nuts -- the reasons should be more transparent. For now, haphazardly edit and use trial and error to submit.

In terms of less-than-stellar reviews being written, I dread a bad review... but it's going to happen. I'll either have a bad day or someone isn't going to connect with me or I with them or who knows... and there it will be for all to see. And, it'll be a blow to my ego, definitely, but it will be an opportunity for improvement (I would love this constructive criticism to reach me more privately, however the way the client wishes to relay it is the best way).

And that's key, too -- the ideal "negative" review would be constructive and offer things that a provider could improve upon, not demean her or pontificate things that may not have any recourse (i.e., description of physical imperfection needn't be lambasted to make a point). I can see justification if it's a ROB situation... but short of that, anonymity shouldn't be an excuse for lack of couth or compassion.

The whole review system is supposed to be a feedback loop, after all, in addition to a reference for those without direct experience. Almost any service that is reviewed works this way. Though, similarly, there are parties on both sides of it that abuse the system (think Yelp on that one). Grain of salt or salt shaker with everything...

My two cents...

"eroticism is like a dance: one always leads the other." ~mk

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Dunester
Member since 8-Apr-10
93 posts
12-Aug-10, 04:01 PM (PST)
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18. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #17
 
   LAST EDITED ON 12-Aug-10 AT 04:03 PM (PST)
 
Steve, I read your review and found it odd.
I remember you quoting a part of her ad where she said she was non-GFE. You seemed to be pointing out that that was the part of her ad that should be taken note of by potential clients.

I also remember that you mentioned that she was not Asian. Another part that seemed a bit strange was that you took issue with her age, I think you said she looked like she was in her late 20's instead of the 19 she claimed to be. Correct me if I'm wrong but you also gave her low marks for looks, maybe a 6?
I think you also said that she was GND and not exotic as she appears in her photos.
I was confused by your review.


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dumbbeaches
Member since 29-Jun-10
12 posts
12-Aug-10, 06:58 PM (PST)
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19. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #18
 
   Well, it's not surprising you noticed it, you're probably or should I say, most certainly, are the management of the provider you're referring to. Stop hiding behind a male handle and stop manipulating the system!

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stevev333
Member since 11-Dec-09
9 posts
12-Aug-10, 10:58 PM (PST)
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22. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #18
 
   Hi Dunester!

Thanks for your note, I think many here will find it more useful than you know.

To clarify:

In part of my review I compared the service to that one might find in an AMP. But a key difference is that unlike most women one finds in AMP's, this provider is not Asian, so I pointed that out. I'm not sure how you could have missed that context, or maybe just neglected to mention it here.

As for age, I suggested this provider could pass for a certain age, not that I believed she was that age. In other words, if she claimed to be that age I think most people would accept it. I believe I also mentioned a specific, different age range I believed her to be. I apologize if this was too difficult for you to follow, possibly I could have worded it more simply.

For looks I found her face more average, though her body was very nice, and my scores reflected that. Perhaps you only looked at the face score.

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Dunester
Member since 8-Apr-10
93 posts
13-Aug-10, 00:41 AM (PST)
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23. "RE: Bad massage = bad review? part 2."
In response to message #22
 
   I remembered thinking that the wording was odd but in that context it makes more sense.
I on the other hand felt that she looked very young. Younger than her stated age and that she was quite beautiful. My experience was more in keeping with some others. It seems that YMMV is probably a fair statement. She's clearly not for everyone, but she has her fans.

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