I watched this show last night, and it got me thinking about stuff I have thought of many times before.
Admittedly, the show had a one sided perspective, and focused on the darkest side of the issue, but let's be honest, that side is the most prominant side.

While I acknowledge that there are some women out there that are so clear headed and in touch with themselves that they can ply their trade with little or no negitive ramifications, I also have to acknowledge that the vast majority of them are in some way emotionaly damaged, and probably filled with self loathing about their life.

Yes, it is a transaction...money for service, but it IS different from paying someone to do your taxes or repair your car.

Sex, especially for women, is a very intimate, primal, natural and personal thing. To do it with someone you have no emotional/personal connection with (no matter how slight), is not natural. To do it for money is even less natural.

If you've paid for sex more than a few times, there's no question that you have added to someones emotional decline. And by sex, I mean women that let you fuck them for money.

My question is:
Does this bother you?
If not, why?

I ask this not to judge, but to try to better understand myself. I've been doing this for over 30 years (not regularly), and have never felt good about it (in the long run). And yet, I continue.

mufdvr
GO 'S

14 out of 15, getting hot for the playoffs!

2. Sex work is one of a long list of jobs that can take an emotional toll. Some are rewarding and some are just stressful: drudge office work (what Veronica Monet -- among many others -- says she happily left behind to be a prostitute), police officer, ER doc, soldier. If one includes physical problems, one can include coal miner, farmworker, etc. Sex workers at the price level I patronize make enough money to be able to change careers or just take a break when they burn out. The clerk at Safeway doesn't.

Should I feel worse about sex with a provider than I do about eating lettuce, getting a bone set at the ER, or a transaction with an underpaid bank worker or grocery store clerk?

That said, I try to avoid business with blatantly abusive practices, like sweatshop-factory clothing or pimped providers.

My GF just said "maybe the guilt makes it hotter for him?" Her husband added: "he should just pay them more".

I think this kind of discussion is part of our cultural pattern of decrying or feeling guilty about sexual topic "x" and saying "but it's not that I disapprove of sex, it's because of..." fill in the blank. Yet when you look at how analogous situations that don't involve sex are treated, you can see immediately that it *is* about the sex.

the Suitcase

People with shit for brains
have fertile minds.

There is probably an evolutionary argument for extended families and more open sexuality than religious celebacy or this nuclear and monogamous system of guilt, shame, lies and self-lies, and the often ugly consequences of sexual repression. We probably need to redefine love and its expression, marriage and morals along with ethics around a more widespread open adult sexuality.

However, until we get there there will be a market for sex. The gain outweighs the risks. As others have pointed out, some will be trophy women sold to the highest bidder (money and power are seductive, right?) Sadly, coupled with the poverty in the third world, U.S. poverty, and social conditions like drug addiction, the supply will remain to meet demand.

It will probably save more marriages than it will harm in the long-run, though no one wants to face that.

Its an enigma, my fellow humans!!! We need forgiveness toward ourselves!!!

??

>Admittedly, the show had a one sided perspective, and
>focused on the darkest side of the issue, but let's be
>honest, that side is the most prominant side.

Uh, what do you mean, "the most prominent side"?

I also have to acknowledge that the vast
>majority of them are in some way emotionaly damaged, and
>probably filled with self loathing about their life.

Why do you assume all that?

>Yes, it is a transaction...money for service, but it IS
>different from paying someone to do your taxes or repair
>your car.

If you think sex is something holy and moral, maybe.

>Sex, especially for women, is a very intimate, primal,
>natural and personal thing.

Ah, so for WOMEN it is so intimate and personal! They are angels!

To do it with someone you have
>no emotional/personal connection with (no matter how
>slight), is not natural. To do it for money is even less
>natural.

What do you mean by "natural?" Dogs don't fuck dogs they don't know?

>If you've paid for sex more than a few times, there's no
>question that you have added to someones emotional decline.

Lol, let's get dramatic! "Emotional decline"?!

>I've been doing this for over 30 years (not
>regularly), and have never felt good about it (in the long
>run). And yet, I continue.

Ah, so that's it. It's not "let's get real," it is YOU who should get real, dude. If hobbying causes you such emotional turmoil, well then just STOP! And leave your moralizing to yourself.

Aquí se queda la clara...

Perhaps you wanted to write " moral decline' instead of emotional decline ?

No! having NSA sex with many men do not damage a woman.,, not any more than a man who has sex with many women. There are many many women who are not publicly announcing as sex workers who has sex with many men. See because there are many men who would stigmatize women who enjoys sex with many partners.. so they stay quiet. They are smart because if announcing certain action does not benefit them, then they will do it off the record. Unlike men, they don't need to brag about men they conquered.. or they may not even see it as the extension of their ego to engage in sex.

Do you realize how easy it is for a woman to get sex? Even in late 30s if she post in CL casual encounters she will probably get few hundred replies immediately. How hard would it be if she chose 20 of nicest guys and start seeing them regularly... then asked them to help little bit for her rent. Is that so degrading? or damaging to her psyche?

There are many women who do provide in this manner... who do not consider themselves as providers or selling sex for money.

Some of her guys are lonely.. or are married and not getting sex. They are appreciative when they get to spend time with her.... then she has some big expense that couldn't be covered by these guys.. so she posts ad in RB. She is doing this anyways .. why not?

She is a woman in her late 30s, she is single or divorced, may be with a child...worked in awful mindless job in an office.. had to work overtime to meet her needs. every night she came home exhausted.

Now she is working for herself, she has some savings and planning to visit Europe for the first time this year. She also met a very sweet man as a client who later became her lover they are even talking about marriage.

The above story is a fiction but it sure sounds familiar in RB.

Oh BTW this is the type of women I enjoy playing with so... NO! I am not morally degrading this woman when she makes me into her tranny bottom bitch more often than I top her.

ooops!

Like you, I don't do this much, but I readily admit that I'm addicted to reading Redbook. I read your post and at first I didn't want to comment because this is personal to you and I tend to write long replies. However, there are a couple of things that come to mind. First . . .

>Sex, especially for women, is a very intimate, primal,
>natural and personal thing. To do it with someone you have
>no emotional/personal connection with (no matter how
>slight), is not natural. To do it for money is even less
>natural.

I'm not sure that I fully agree with this statement. Not so much for how you've stated it, but for my perception of the inaccuracies within. First of all, I read from your statement that ALL women strictly have an emotional attachment to sex (ie Sex is purely emotional). I strongly disagree with this. Women use sex for all kinds of reasons, as do men! As such, the stereotype that women are more monogamous than men is going by the wayside every day. Surveys and studies are showing that with more independence, women have become more assertive with sex. Increasingly studies find more women participating in relationships outside their significant (primary) relationship. Additionally, DNA paternity results are increasingly determining that the supposed father is not.

I state this not to bash women, but to clarify that women are human. AND, humans have sex for many different reasons. Next . . .

>If you've paid for sex more than a few times, there's no
>question that you have added to someones emotional decline.
>And by sex, I mean women that let you fuck them for money.

How is this any different than if one pays <amount> of money to a provider for sex provider vs. buying the significant other a gift that costs <amount> resulting in her being so 'happy and appreciative' that she decides to have sex with you (for the first time in ____ months/weeks/years). In this case, the actions may have different names, but the behavior is the same. Next . . .

>While I acknowledge that there are some women out there that
>are so clear headed and in touch with themselves that they
>can ply their trade with little or no negitive
>ramifications, I also have to acknowledge that the vast
>majority of them are in some way emotionaly damaged, and
>probably filled with self loathing about their life.

I'll add to this that there are MANY women (and men) who are emotionally damaged and having all kinds of random (and perhaps UNSAFE) sex persona non gratis. Additionally, there are all kinds of people that are self-loathing and:
* who are married and not having sex at all
* pay to have sex
* decide that the only way to 'fix' themselves and their self-loathing is to (get married, get a tattoo, join a gang, have babies, buy that $600 pair of Manolo's when you can't afford the $700 rent, gamble, drugs, committ suicide, drink, perform random violent acts onto others, sex, etc.) only to find out this temporary 'fix' didn't fix anything.

How does being a provider make any of this different?
For that matter, how is the guilt or or loathing different btwn a provider and a stripper, a provider and a "trophy wife" or better yet a provider and a surrogate???

As far as the "clear-headed and being in touch with themselves", I'm not so sure that applies. I'm sure there are some who get into this because they're short on money but LOVE sex (clear-minded) and then become jaded after being in this profession for a period of time. In this example, the loathing doesn't occur until after the fact. Or conversely, you can have the jaded, angry woman who feels more empowered after becoming a provider because she 'owns' control of the sexual objectification. And this certainly doesn't cover the person who decides to take advantage of an opportunity. (Example: Woman goes on vacation, decides she wants to hook-up but sees he's loaded and decides to charge him, feign pregnancy or blackmail him--it happens.)

Of course none of this deals when the roles are reversed either (male provider and female client). Are you saying that a guy can't feel emotionally damaged but a woman can? HHHhhhmmm ? ? ?

Next . . .

>Admittedly, the show had a one sided perspective, and
>focused on the darkest side of the issue, but let's be
>honest, that side is the most prominant side.

As do you. You ask an open ended question, but then seem to get defensive when someone replies to the contrary and need to adjust their response to your position.

>My question is:
>Does this bother you?
>If not, why?
>
My personal perspective is that I don't schedule with people whom I think are under the influence of others (pimped out) and I seek out those who are highly reviewed in a positive fashion over an extended period of time. I think that if a provider meets that set of benchmarks, then she enjoys what she is doing and that providing good service pleases her (monetarily, physically, and yes emotionally). IMO, seeing someone young, new or not well reviewed can be the contribution directly to someone with bigger issues to resolve. (**PS: That is why sites like this are great. You don't have to contribute to the delinquency.)
Am I bothered if I go through all of that? No.
Why? Because I can feel pretty sure that she wants to schedule on her own terms and within her own accord.
Are there slip-ups using this logic? Certainly, but in those cases, I am the one being deceived (not unlike buying a lemon car) as she presents herself as someone who is independent, willing and accepting of said actions.

With that said,
Is there trafficing and exploitation? Yes
Is there violence and/or drug abuse within this underground industry? Yes
Are there class distinctions? Yes
Do I do my best to ensure that I don't partake in further exploiting those negative behaviors? Yes
Do I have guilt in scheduling after performing research? Almost never. (In the cases that I have, it's always been the perception that I didn't get what I was offered.)

**I'll also add that for the record, I'm single (not married and no GF) and that I have some trust issues with intimacy myself (I've been the one cheated on and I'd rather know her intentions up front. Going to a provider, I do for the most part.)

>I ask this not to judge, but to try to better understand
>myself. I've been doing this for over 30 years (not
>regularly), and have never felt good about it (in the long
>run). And yet, I continue.

In closing, I will agree with you that MUCH of this is seedy. But so is the strip club business. Does buying a lap dance contribute less emotional damage? I'll add that it is seedy in part due to the (ill)legality. I'll add that much of our perspective is based on the culture at hand and our preconceived biases. In other words, our morals get in the way of our actions. And without passing judgement, but adding neutral feedback, I think this is your quandry.

In order to resolve this, perhaps you need to ask yourself (or a professional) some questions:
Why do you do this? (For some, it may involve infidelity to a significant other. For others, it may be a way to have sex because a spouse has been injured and is no long able to have sex. What is your reason?)
Why do you feel bad about it? (betrayal, guilt, religion, socio-economic, caste/class issues)
Are your actions in conflict with your morals? (followed by)
*If so, how do you resolve your behavior so you no longer feel conflicted?

And if you really feel the need to "be real", ask yourself this . . .

Do you really think that you would feel better if you paid $5000?
Do you really think the $5K girl has fewer emotional issues based on the donation?
IMO, the only difference btwn a 5k girl and everyone else is:
1) how hot she is
2) discretion (btwn Heidi Fleiss and Elliot Spitzer, that's really worked out well hasn't it???)

As far as anyone contributing to my emotional decline, that will only happen if I allow it to. YOU(gents) don't have control over my emotional well-being ... only I do and I take full responsiblity for that.

I felt that the show was very well-done ... it was very educational, especially since I am walking in those shoes, so therefore, I see it from a completely different light than the average civie does. This holds true with any industry in the real world that anyone works in.

Just look at the comments on the abc site and most are shared with heartfelt sadness for these girls ... yes, girls. It would be naive of me not to be aware of the low end of the spectrum although I consider myself to be closer to the high end of the spectrum. Again, we experience this in so many areas of life.

I could absolutely relate to The Bunny Ranch - in the services that they offered and the professionalism. However, I particularly related the most with the Courtesan. She knew who she was, what she offered, why she provides the service that she does ... in another words, I felt that she was genuine to who she is with her eyes wide open in the profession that she chose. Ironically, she was the only small segment that showed a glimpse of foundation of what I believe that most of us experience in this industry by participating on these message boards. (Remember, I said MOST and not ALL!)

I believe that to be the difference and as we all saw, there was only one segment on a "normal" woman. Diane Sawyer did her best to break her down - there's got to be some "issues" - well, welcome to the world of life ... it is no big surprise that we ALL have issues ... everyone of us. We live in an imperfect world with imperfect people - that is a fact. Even Diane Sawyer has her own issues ... LOL!

And you are absolutely right - this is a different type of business - one that offers a product and a service of INTIMACY ... we are dealing with human emotions and feelings. I believe you need to have a pretty good head on your shoulders in order to be successful and not get caught up in the bs. Luckily, we can learn thru our experiences to grasp a better understanding for what works best for us - again, it comes back to being authentic and genuine to who you are.

"Admittedly, the show had a one sided perspective, and focused on the darkest side of the issue, but let's be honest, that side is the most prominant side." ~ docwizzle

Again, you are right because that was the focus that the segment wanted to share with the viewers. Now, if the show was based on the positive attributes that each person has received, the tone of the show would have left you with a different impression of this industry. Here's what I know for myself ...

Being an escort has enriched my life. It was a fantasy of mine in my early 20's and when I was presented with the opportunity, I was at a point in my life where it was time to start living life and accomplishing dreams/goals that I had. I have always been a very sensual and sexual person and I am very grateful for how much more I have blossomed. I share with alot of my clients that every woman should be a provider. You learn a great deal about yourself, but mostly, I have such a better understanding of the male species. It all depends on how you look at things and what you hope to achieve from your experiences.

I know that I am not the typical provider out there, but I also know that I am not alone with how I feel about this industry as I just conveyed to all of you ... there are some wonderful ladies in our industry like myself. No matter what or who you encounter in life, you will always have the different classes, different levels and different extremes ... that's just how life is.

Sunshine Loves ~
Lacie O

"Because Everyone Has Their Desires ..."

Eating is primal. Paying money for food which you didn't hunt or gather yourself disturbs the natural order. It's unnatural to be able to go to the supermarket and buy a week's worth of food with money. It obliterates the way humans and their antecedents lived for millions of years.

Money allows us to make very different choices with regards to the lives we live. It allowed us to escape an existence where 99% of humans were preoccupied with finding and preparing food.

>My question is:
>Does this bother you?
>If not, why?

It doesn't bother me because there is no rational basis for finding it disturbing. The morality which forbids it is a religious relic.

That's why the "end the demand" campaigns and all the skewed media coverage really piss me off. The world is full of lonely and/or horny men who would gladly pay a hooker for sex but don't because they've been brainwashed into thinking that by doing so, they would be victimizing some poor woman. But the assholes who mistreat, rough-up, or do worse to women would never let the media hype stop them from seeing hookers. If anything, it would entice them even more. If you are a compassionate and caring person, you shouldn't feel bad about seeing hookers; you're a positive contribution to the "john pool."

As you mentioned, it's not the same for every woman in the business. Some have a harder time than others with having sex with strangers for money. I think it's particularly hard for a woman in her early 20's (and often a bit older) to have sex with some old dude. It kind of rattled me a bit at first (though I was in my early 30's) but then I started to feel good about being able to give them a moment's happiness, and it became something I enjoyed. But I certainly couldn't have handled it when I was so young, so I often worry about some of these 18-22 year olds are affected by it.

You're basing your opinion on the assumption that having sex with someone she wouldn't otherwise have sex with is one of the worst things a woman can go through with. This is the same assumption made by IJM, Donna Hughes, Melissa Farley, and all the other crusaders trying to wipe out all forms of prostitution. Living in poverty is degrading, dehumanizing and miserable. Working long, hard hours at some shitty job with an asshole for a boss, for barely enough money to pay for your sub-standard living is far worse than turning tricks for a living.

If you're going to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for the people who prepare your happy meal or the people who assembled your cell-phone. Save your tears for when you read about another AMP bust (aka "sex slave rescue operation") and all the women robbed of their livelihood; or the brutal murder of a sex worker who should have been with a nice guy like you that fateful night instead.

I went into the business as a frustrated, disgruntled secretary who felt dehumanized by my asshole of a boss and credit-stealing co-workers who never acknowledged all the hard work I did for them (even on my own time) because it made them look better. Overall, I felt far more appreciated (and respected even) as a sex worker than as an office lackey. When I quit providing, it was with no emotional scars, and I wouldn't take it all back even if I could.

ƒK