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IndianDick
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17-Apr-03, 08:09 PM (PST)
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"Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
 
   I have not tried Viagra or Cialis so far but am curious if anyone on RB has tried them both. If so, which one was superior in your opinion?

As of now, Cialis has yet to be approved by the FDA for use in the US, but it is already available in Europe, Australia, and New Zealand. It appears to have generated a lot of positive "buzz" in those places.

http://www.cialisnews.com/

http://www.cialisstories.com/

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Southernman_ken
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1. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #0
 
  

same.


Both are orally active PDE V inhibitors. Cialis claims to act more quickly, but this is more a function of trial design than any real difference betweent the two.

Cialis is more potent on a mg basis. 20 mg Cialis is the same as 100 mg Viagra. May lead to less side effects, but that did not appear to be the case in the clinical trials.

Cialis also claims to last longer than Viagra. But frankly, 4 hr or 6 hrs is irrelevant, as I am cooked after 2 - 3 hrs.

FYI, Vardafanil will be on the market eventually, and it is the same as Cialis or Viagra (PDE V inhibitor).

Uprima (apomorphine) is a different mechanism - centrally acting. One can get apomorphine as an injection for $2/dose vs. $20/dose. Apomorphine is nick-named the "weekender: since it lasts 24 to 48 hrs.


Since you can get Viagra knock offs from India at abot $3/100 mg, I see no reason to go with Cialis.

Or which ever is cheaper (factoring in the difference in potency).

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Smoove
Member since 12-Mar-03
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18-Apr-03, 05:11 PM (PST)
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2. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #1
 
Now THAT is somebody who obviously knows his stuff! I myself, wouldn't want a "weekend hardon". That is WAY to much work! LOL. But whatever works for the individual ya know.


Be safe out there and remember,,, a smile is free

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10DENCTOENJOY
Member since 20-Nov-02
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18-Apr-03, 11:38 PM (PST)
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3. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #1
 
   Also, Apomorphine will likely make you puke quite readily. This is what it has been used for clinically (after suspected poison ingestion).

Cheers

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Southernman_ken
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19-Apr-03, 07:05 AM (PST)
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4. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #3
 
   LAST EDITED ON 19-Apr-03 AT 07:07 AM (PST)
 

Yes, apomorphine will induce emesis, but not at these doses. But if you took three or four tabs at once, it might work. I would imagine that puking on your lover would put Uprima at a marketing disadvantage.
.

Apomorphine is sold as a kit for vet use to induce vomiting in companion animals (dogs will eat anything). One popular kit contains eye drops that deliver it. If I remember right, 6mg in a medium sized dog works.

I have always wondered if the sale of such kits has jumped.

In man, apomorphine is not usually used for emesis, except is emergency situations. Usually it is stomach pumping or ipecac.

But it is used for Parkinsons disease - by injection.

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crank14
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22-Apr-03, 08:59 AM (PST)
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9. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #1
 
   Southernman Ken - Got a link for that Indian Viagra knockoff?

TIA

Crank14

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bluethrills
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5. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #0
 
- blue thrills

Here's an interesting article about Cialis ...

Enjoy,

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leonard Blum: The man who will take on Viagra

Leonard Blum, head of marketing at Icos, is taking on Pfizer's Viagra with Cialis, an impotence drug from Icos and Eli Lilly that works faster and longer. He was photographed in his Seattle home.

Millions of men will no longer have to hurry up to have sex after taking a pill if Leonard Blum is successful at his job.

Blum is in charge of sales and marketing at Icos, the Bothell biotech company that created Cialis, the impotence drug just approved in Europe as the first direct competitor to Pfizer's Viagra.

To compete, Blum has to cross a few things off his to-do list: A. Recruit sales reps to talk doctors into prescribing a longer-lasting impotence pill than Viagra; B. Turn Cialis into a household name; and C. Outmaneuver one of the pharmaceutical industry's savviest marketing forces, Pfizer.

Blum paces the dining room in his Seattle home, ticking off research findings showing men want a longer-lasting drug. Studies show Cialis can remain in the bloodstream up to 36 hours; Viagra has been shown to last four hours.

"With Viagra, a man takes the medicine, he has an erection, he has sex," Blum said. "It's functional, and for a lot of men it isn't really satisfying. What men want is to be normal again. They want to be able to respond to their partner when the time is right. They want to separate the medicine from the act of intimacy."

A lot is riding on Blum's ability to hit the right chord. The Cialis vs. Viagra battle could turn Icos from a biotech research-and-development company in Bothell into a pharmaceutical company with a potential billion-dollar moneymaker.

In mid-November, after years of clinical trials in more than 4,000 men, Cialis was cleared for sale in Europe. It may get approval for U.S. sales as early as the second half of 2003.

Research shows about 70 million men in North America and Europe have impotence, and about 80 percent have never been treated. Blum has been preparing for this tilt since June 2000 when he came to Icos from Merck, where he spent 13 years in sales, marketing and management.

Co-workers and relatives describe him as focused, analytical and gifted at articulating science in understandable terms. His background has a string of achievements: Eagle Scout, magna cum laude graduate in economics from Princeton, a Stanford MBA, top of his class as an Army Green Beret.

At Merck, he led sales-and-marketing teams in the United States, Switzerland, Germany and Israel, guiding the launch of 11 new drugs.

Blum, who turns 42 in January, is married with three children 10 months through 6 years. He gives a blank look when asked about his hobbies. His wife, Missy, said he enjoys picking stocks, and closely follows Middle East affairs.

In his office, Blum has a picture of himself with Paul Newman, who has a relationship with Lilly to raise awareness of impotence. There's another of Shimon Peres, the former Israeli prime minister whom he met during his time at Merck.

Blum comes across serious, but with a sense of humor. One vice: He makes daily lunch runs to McDonald's, and regularly orders pizza at the office to get through 17-hour days.

"When I was in Munich, Zurich and Tel Aviv there were certain spikes in sales they probably couldn't explain at McDonald's. Now I can clear up the mystery," Blum said with a laugh.

Ken Ferguson, senior director of therapeutic development at Icos, said Blum's drive is infectious enough to persuade scientists — who tend to be distrustful of marketers — to believe they can take on Pfizer.

Ferguson told the story of how Blum once was talking about work on a cellphone on his way to the airport, while checking bags, through weapons screening, and onto the plane, talking until being forced to turn the phone off.

"Leonard is one of the most intense people at Icos, and we have a lot of intense people," Ferguson said.

Blum's co-workers say he'll need the drive. Pfizer sold $1.5 billion worth of Viagra last year, and it has a string of billion-dollar hits including Lipitor and Zoloft. It is the world's largest drug company.

Icos, by comparison, is young and tiny. It has fewer than 500 employees, and no approved drugs in the United States. A partnership with Eli Lilly splits decision-making and profits on Cialis 50/50, while allowing Icos to tap into a worldwide marketing and distribution network. Lilly's sales and marketing group is not on a roll; its Prozac sales fell unusually fast when it went off patent last year, and sales for its sepsis drug Xigris have been slow.

Blum shrugs it off, saying Lilly isn't as arrogant as some pharmaceutical companies and has been able to fend off Pfizer in the schizophrenia-drug market. Still, he's not relying entirely on the big partner — Icos has hired 20 sales managers of its own. He intends to hire an additional 165 sales reps when the drug is launched in the United States, aiming to pluck away top performers at other companies who want to make a bigger impact.

Blum grew up in western North Carolina, in Asheville, a small city along the Blue Ridge Mountains. His father, who he says was his hero, was born in Czechoslovakia, a Jew who survived . concentration camps before immigrating to the United States in 1947.

Blum's father supported his family with a textiles business, but didn't encourage his sons to follow him because of looming foreign competition. Blum and his brothers grew up close and academically competitive. Leonard's older brother Andrew is now an interventional radiologist in Chicago; his younger brother Robert is a senior vice president at a Bay Area biotech company.

Robert Blum remembers his brother as goal-oriented, reading "War and Peace" in middle school to the end. Robert said he and his brothers were shaped by their father's experience as a Holocaust survivor, but Leonard in particular. He said he believes Leonard joined the military partly to repay a debt for liberating their father.

The Army Special Forces training tested his mental and physical limits, Leonard says. The limited sleep, limited food, and running miles carrying heavy packs instilled the need to never quit and to be dependable. He joined Merck after it recruited him out of Special Forces school.

Leonard said he got into pharmaceuticals partly out of idealism. He gets irritated by jokes about how the last thing the world needs is more sex-crazed middle-aged men, and more drug companies profiteering on the world's ills.

He makes an earnest-sounding counter-argument about relationships falling apart because of impotence. He says he could have sold soda or snacks, but chose pharmaceuticals to help people live longer and better. He points out Cialis could fuel Icos' research in lethal diseases such as severe sepsis and pulmonary hypertension.

"If 25 years from now we have a company here that in its contribution to medicine and patients stands alongside a Merck or a Pfizer, then absolutely everything here will have been worthwhile," he said.

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Shorty
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20-Apr-03, 10:46 PM (PST)
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6. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #0
 
   Even if Cialis gets approved by the FDA don't expect to purchase it anytime soon (legally anyway) in the US. Pfizer has a US patent on a mechanism that both use to attach to the cells and will fight to the death in court to keep Cialis out of the US.

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drinkitdown
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21-Apr-03, 10:07 AM (PST)
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7. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #0
 
   Viagra is really for "one encounter". Cialis lasts 36 hours. In France, it is called "Le Weekend".

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Southernman_ken
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22-Apr-03, 07:08 PM (PST)
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10. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #7
 
   LAST EDITED ON 22-Apr-03 AT 07:12 PM (PST)
 

Cialis lasts 36 hrs? Do you have a reference for that? I was under the impression that it may last a bit longer than Viagra, but not that long.

Uprima does have a very long half life, and was nicknamed the weekender also.

The indian knock-offs go by caverta www.worldexpressrx.com

And silagra at www.cheapestsilagra.com/silagra.html

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IndianDick
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23-Apr-03, 09:18 AM (PST)
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11. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #10
 
   Here's the reference you're looking for:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,817876,00.html

"Eli Lilly and Icos say that Cialis will produce longer lasting effects than the Pfizer treatment. Viagra takes about an hour to work and then lasts for between three and four hours - although some men still benefit 12 hours later. Its absorption is also inhibited if taken after food. With Cialis, the tests showed that 59% of men still reported the ability to have sex 36 hours after taking it. In addition, food does not affect Cialis, or Levitra, according to the available data."

Happy Humping!

>
>
>Cialis lasts 36 hrs? Do you have a reference for that? I
>was under the impression that it may last a bit longer than
>Viagra, but not that long.
>
>Uprima does have a very long half life, and was nicknamed
>the weekender also.
>
>The indian knock-offs go by caverta www.worldexpressrx.com
>
>And silagra at www.cheapestsilagra.com/silagra.html

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crank14
Member since 26-Feb-03
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23-Apr-03, 02:19 PM (PST)
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12. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #10
 
   Thansk for the links, Ken.

Anyone have experience with the Meltabs or any of the other quick-dissolve/quicker-acting sildenafil citrates? Opinions? Seems like such a modest premium over the Caverta price that it might be worth it - if it does work faster.

Crank

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bluethrills
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22-Apr-03, 08:10 AM (PST)
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8. "RE: Viagra vs Cialis: Any Info on the Pro's and Con's?"
In response to message #0
 
As of date, Cialis does not have US FDA approval.

However, the drug is availble in the US. Check this out ...
https://www.planetdrugsdirect.com/if.asp?searchstring=cialis


Cheers,
- blue thrills

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