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Alphacat_13
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19-Jan-10, 05:14 PM (PST)
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"Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
 
...and like most of the prior such studies, why do I get the impression that the researchers had already made up their minds and then found people to corroborate their opinion?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jan/15/why-men-use-prostitutes

Why men use prostitutes

The reasons why many men pay for sex are revealed in the interviews that make up a major new piece of research

'I don't get anything out of sex with prostitutes except for a bad feeling," says Ben. An apparently average, thirtysomething, middle-class man, Ben had taken an extended lunchbreak from his job in advertising to talk about his experiences of buying sex. Shy and slightly nervous, he told me, "I am hoping that talking about it might help me work out why I do it."

I, too, was hoping to understand his motives better. Ben was one of 700 men interviewed for a major international research project seeking to uncover the reality about men who buy sex. The project spanned six countries, and of the 103 customers we spoke to in London – where I was one of the researchers – most were surprisingly keen to discuss their experiences.

The men didn't fall into obvious stereotypes. They were aged between 18 and 70 years old; they were white, black, Asian, eastern European; most were employed and many were ­educated beyond school level. In the main they were presentable, polite, with average-to-good social skills. Many were husbands and boyfriends; just over half were either married or in a relationship with a woman.

Research published in 2005 found that the numbers of men who pay for sex had doubled in a decade. The ­authors attributed this rise to "a greater acceptability of commercial sexual contact", yet many of our ­interviewees told us that they felt ­intense guilt and shame about paying for sex. "I'm not satisfied in my mind" was how one described his feelings after paying for sex. Another told me that he felt "disappointed – what a waste of money", "lonely still" and "guilty about my relationship with my wife". In fact, many of the men were a mass of contradictions. Despite finding their experiences "unfulfilling, empty, terrible", they continued to visit prostitutes.

I interviewed 12 of the men, and found it a fascinating experience. One told me about his experience of childhood cruelty and neglect and linked this to his inability to form close ­relationships with anyone, particularly women. Alex admitted sex with ­prostitutes made him feel empty, but he had no idea how to get to know women "through the usual routes". When I asked him about his feelings ­towards the women he buys he said that on the one hand, he wants ­prostitutes to get to know and like him and, on the other, he is "not under ­delusions" that the encounters are anything like a real relationship.

"I want my ideal prostitute not to behave like one," he said, "to role-play to be a pretend girlfriend, a casual date, not business-like or mechanical. To a third person it looks like we're in love."

I felt compassion for Alex. No one had shown him how to form a bond with another human being and he was searching for something that commercial sex was never going to provide.

But another of the interviewees left me feeling concerned. Darren was young, good-looking and bright; I asked him how often he thought the women he paid enjoyed the sex. "I don't want them to get any pleasure," he told me. "I am paying for it and it is her job to give me pleasure. If she enjoys it I would feel cheated." I asked if he felt prostitutes were different to other women. "The fact that they're prepared to do that job where others won't, even when they're skint, means there's some capability inside them that permits them to do it and not be disgusted," he said. He seemed full of a festering, potentially explosive misogyny.

When asked what would end ­prostitution, one interviewee laughed and said, "Kill all the girls." Paul told me that it would take "all the men to be locked up". But most of them told the researchers that they would be ­easily deterred if the current laws were implemented. Fines, public ­exposure, employers being informed, being issued with an Asbo or the risk of a criminal record would stop most of the men from continuing to pay for sex. Discovering the women were ­trafficked, pimped or otherwise coerced would appear not to be so ­effective. Almost half said they ­believed that most women in prostitution are victims of pimps ("the pimp does the ­psychological raping of the woman," explained one). But they still continued to visit them.

An upcoming new law will make it illegal for men to pay for sex with a trafficked or pimped woman – and a punter's ignorance of a woman's ­circumstances will be no defence. Critics have suggested that this is ­unfair, that a man can't possibly know whether a woman is being exploited. Our interviews challenged this ­notion. The men knew, to some extent, about abuse and coercion in prostitution – they weren't operating under the ­convenient illusion that women enter the trade because they love sex. More than half admitted that they either knew or believed that a majority of women in prostitution were lured, tricked or trafficked.

More than one third said they thought the prostitutes they visited had been trafficked to London from another country, and a small number said they suspected that they had ­encountered a trafficking victim based on the woman's inability to speak the local language or on how young or vulnerable they appeared. "I could tell she was new to the country," said one man. "To be new in a country and be a prostitute – it can't be a choice . . . She looked troubled."

Another said that he had "seen women with bruises, cuts and eastern European accents in locations where lots of trafficked women and girls are". One man suspected that an African woman he had met was ­trafficked ­because "she was frightened and ­nervous. She told me she had been tricked. I had sex with her and she seemed fine with the sex. She asked me to help her, but I said there was little I could do. She might have been lying to me."

One of the most interesting findings was that many believed men would "need" to rape if they could not pay for sex on demand. One told me, "Sometimes you might rape someone: you can go to a prostitute instead." Another put it like this: "A desperate man who wants sex so bad, he needs sex to be relieved. He might rape." I concluded from this that it's not feminists such as Andrea Dworkin and myself who are responsible for the idea that all men are potential rapists – it's sometimes men themselves.

Half of the interviewees had bought sex outside of the UK, mostly in Amsterdam, and visiting an area where prostitution is legal or openly advertised had given them a renewed dedication to buying sex when they returned to the UK. Almost half said that they first paid for sex when they were below the age of 21. "Dad took me and my older brother," said David. "He paid. Maybe he wanted to make sure we weren't gay. We went to a brothel. Dad didn't do it, and I don't think he told my mum."

Another man paid for sex during a stag trip to Thailand with eight of his friends. He was disappointed. "It was a Russian girl, it wasn't the ­escort experience. She didn't want to talk, just lay on the bed and wanted to do the [sex] act only."

Many men seemed to want a real relationship with a woman and were disappointed when this didn't develop: "It's just a sex act, no emotion. Be prepared to accept this or don't go at all. It's not a wife or girlfriend." ­Others were clear that they paid for sex in order to be able to totally control the encounter, including Bob, who said, "Look, men pay for women because he can have whatever and whoever he wants. Lots of men go to prostitutes so they can do things to them that real women would not put up with."

Although some of the men said they thought the women they bought ­enjoyed the sex, many others admitted that they thought the women would be feeling "disgusted", "miserable", "dirty" and "scared". Ahmed said he thought the woman might feel "relief that I'm not going to kill her".

Only 6% of the men we spoke to had been arrested for soliciting ­prostitutes. "Deterrents would only work if ­enforced," said one. "Any negative would make you reconsider. The law's not enforced now, but if any negative thing happened as a consequence it would deter me." Perhaps the new law will make Albert think twice about paying for sex. He told me, "If I'd get in trouble for doing it, I wouldn't do it. In this country, the police are fine with men visiting prostitutes."

Read the research project's report here:

http://www.eaves4women.co.uk/Documents/Recent_Reports/Men%20Who%20Buy%20Sex.pdf


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NealDown click here to view user rating
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19-Jan-10, 06:16 PM (PST)
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1. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
Interesting read in that you can discern the author's POV as it permeates the entire article and probably distorts every interview so that the 'johns' end up supporting it. This is hardly what I would call journalism.

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hooboy click here to view user rating
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19-Jan-10, 06:22 PM (PST)
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2. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
It's pretty clear the UK does not know the meaning of RBGFE.


"You only think you're free"

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toothpick
Member since 14-Dec-09
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19-Jan-10, 08:21 PM (PST)
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3. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #2
 
   because i have a micropenis, if it wasn't for the world's oldest profession i would have died a fucking virgin...

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rforre1
Member since 5-Oct-07
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19-Jan-10, 09:56 PM (PST)
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4. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #3
 
   A study carried out by 3 women underwritten by an organization called "EVES - Putting Women First." How could there even be a remote possibility of real insight. Even the title shows they are clueless. Men use prostitutes because of women like these researchers.

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dangermouse666 click here to view user rating
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20-Jan-10, 09:03 AM (PST)
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7. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #4
 
"Men use prostitutes because of women like these researchers"

awesome comment! too funny. too true.

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thruxton
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20-Jan-10, 00:20 AM (PST)
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5. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
   "I don't get anything out of sex with prostitutes except for a bad feeling," says Ben

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Skeptical click here to view user rating
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20-Jan-10, 06:41 AM (PST)
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6. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
   Objective? Hardly. Here's the key passage:

"I concluded from this that it's not feminists such as Andrea Dworkin and myself who are responsible for the idea that all men are potential rapists"

Andrea Dworkin has even said that there can never be consensual sex between a man and a woman because of the inherent power differential between the sexes so all sex is rape.

If this author sides with a nut job like Dworkin, she's clearly not objective.

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Burtie
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21-Jan-10, 09:40 PM (PST)
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12. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #6
 
   "Andrea Dworkin has even said that there can never be consensual sex between a man and a woman because of the inherent power differential between the sexes so all sex is rape."

It is an interesting notion. Pushed to its extreme, it raises interesting questions.

If the woman is holding a .357 magnum (presumably equalizing the power imbalance), would that still count as rape?

If the man is a complete milquetoast and the woman is fitness nut (a la Xena the Warrior Princess) how does that work out as rape?

Woman with strap-on, driving it home, while the man bites the pillow?

Woman on top of man performing erotic asphyxiation maneuver? What if the man is tied up as in the Sharon Stone movie where she showed her snatch?

The mind races with possibilities.

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Maximum_AMPlitude click here to view user rating
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20-Jan-10, 03:27 PM (PST)
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8. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
   Yet Another Example of How the Bay Area is Different From the U.K.

Let them interview us RB Brethren, sample our gals, and publish the Sequel!

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kinkyfetishstud
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20-Jan-10, 08:55 PM (PST)
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9. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #8
 
Men use prostitues because they can't get enough from their wives or girlfriends (relation ship fizzles)and or cannot get their wives or girlfriends to do CERTAIN acts.

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Argo
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21-Jan-10, 00:46 AM (PST)
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10. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #8
 
I have always paid for sex. I used to be married, but the cost of the marriage + divorce divided by number_of_times_I've_had_married_sex >> cost per session. So for me the price of sex from prostitutes is less than the price of sex from my SO.

One may argue that men use (such a harsh term) prostitutes because there is better value in this exchange than with the socially acceptable marriage route, presuming value is measured only in monetary terms.

"What's love got to do with it?"

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mazinga_zed
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21-Jan-10, 09:18 PM (PST)
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11. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #10
 
   >I have always paid for sex. I used to be married, but the
>cost of the marriage + divorce divided by
>number_of_times_I've_had_married_sex >> cost per session.
>So for me the price of sex from prostitutes is less than the
>price of sex from my SO.
>
>One may argue that men use (such a harsh term) prostitutes
>because there is better value in this exchange than with the
>socially acceptable marriage route, presuming value is
>measured only in monetary terms.
>
>"What's love got to do with it?"


You're a smart man. In my opinion real girls, as you mentioned actually cost more in both real dollar terms and time invested. Plus you can end up with poor service, and a limited menu.

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BEERBUD99
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11-Feb-10, 10:27 PM (PST)
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25. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #11
 
   With the cost of my divorce, I could poon to death...:(. Too bad I didn;t figure that out way earlier... Live and learn...

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tavarez click here to view user rating
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21-Jan-10, 10:47 PM (PST)
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13. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
   ...to summarize: Men use prostitutes because men are willing to pay for sex.

tav

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JackJelly
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23-Jan-10, 04:58 PM (PST)
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14. "Amen"
In response to message #13
 
   and when a man pays, the bullshit goes away.

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Mrdiscrete click here to view user rating
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23-Jan-10, 07:32 PM (PST)
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15. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
Somehow they omitted the guy that's happy to pay for a certain experience, and somehow they omitted the woman that's happy to provide it.

Wow what a concept

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windowshopping2
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24-Jan-10, 01:18 AM (PST)
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16. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #15
 
   I saw this article too and researched who was responsible for it. As I recall, it was done by a group of women who want to stop prostitution. Absolutely biased.

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NiceWork
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17. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
   I'm sure the article intends to focus the reader's attention on a small percentage of the interviewees responses, those that represent evidence of coercion and traficking. For myself, I've seen no evidence of traficking, although I don't see Asian girls. I've occasionally seen what I thought was coercion, and try to avoid such situations. But the large majority of girls I've encountered clearly see what they do as a job, one that gives them freedom and power. A few enjoy giving pleasure as well, and some see themselves as healers of male frustration that if sublimated, would emerge as a destructive force of some kind.

For all of them there is a dilemma however, which is that they need some kind of physical security. This is what leaves them all so vulnerable to exploitation by thugs.

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ngsfmale click here to view user rating
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26-Jan-10, 12:55 PM (PST)
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18. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #17
 
   More good $ went to waste. I can tell you. Men like variety, don't want to put up with BS, having it our way, anymore?

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Masterdick1 click here to view user rating
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19. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #18
 
   I don't pay for sex...I pay them too leave after sex...or

so they say...

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spiff
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29-Jan-10, 00:58 AM (PST)
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20. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
   One big problem with this kind of research is that the interviewees are self-selected. That will always make it dubious. Even if the researchers were objective, which I agree they clearly were not in this case.

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IrishBacchus click here to view user rating
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31-Jan-10, 06:28 PM (PST)
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21. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
   How about:
Sometimes sex is an emotional hug for the soul.

As JackJelly said, paying eliminates the bullshit.


As a joke goes, What 6 things does a man need to survive?

Air, food, water, shelter, pussy & strange pussy.

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D36L78
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01-Feb-10, 01:05 AM (PST)
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22. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
   Let's face it, this would have been better labeled as "Yet Another Over Simplified Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes"

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kelvin0123456789
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11-Feb-10, 01:56 PM (PST)
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23. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #22
 
   Equal opportunities!
How can I, ugly, small dick, poor, less educated, powerless, etc...get a chance to score hot, sexy, beautiful chicks like other handsome, bigdick, educated, powerful men do?
Answer: prostitution!
That's God answer to men's equal opportunity ideology. And Thanks God!
These men have those women for life, and we only have them for hour(s).

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gjs041959
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11-Feb-10, 04:42 PM (PST)
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24. "RE: Yet Another Study On Why Men Use Prostitutes..."
In response to message #0
 
   There are several things this so-called "study" and the issues it purports to raise reminds me of.

1) The Guardian is the most left wing, pc newspaper in the UK short of the Daily Worker. At times, it can make the NYT look like a moderate centrist newspaper (lol).

2) For anyone who has any experience in scientific studies, this is the ultimate opposite of the double blind studies used to validate new drugs. The interviewees were self selected, the interviewers had a clear bias, and the study only presented data that supported a predetermined conclusion.

3) Prostitution is not technically illegal in the UK. The criminal act is soliciting. There are regular scandals about politicians, CEOs, sports celebrities, and artists who get caught in set-ups. The amazing thing is that it generally involves SW types! The other thing that happens is the UK Tabloid Press always pays top dollar for stories that embarass bigshots, so girls (or even better, BDSM mistresses!) regularly spill the beans on high visibility clients to the press. But there is almost never any criminal prosecution; it just means a government minister resigns or a board fires a CEO (In France, however, no one would ever lose his job over something as unimportant as sex).

4) Escorts in London are about the best in the world, especially at the high end. Thanks to its enormous wealthy, cosmopolitan international business and finance community, there is a large pool of high earning, fast living males ready to pay. The market has responded with a broad range of providers, and believe me (I lived in London for 11 years and lived or worked in NY/Paris/Tokyo/Hong-Kong/SE Asia/Dubai-Gulf) the high end girls are outstanding. They charge top dollar ($500+/hour) but they provide everything from DFK to BBBJTCIM & Greek, and they know how to dress, talk, and behave in restaurants, clubs or the Casino de Monte-Carlo. And thanks to the internet they're relatively easy to find (Captain69 is the London equivalent of RB).

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