If you married guys are so in love with your precious wives, why do you fuck prostitutes? You know your "life partner" would be quite devastated to know that you hire someone ELSE to be a cum receptacle twice a week.

Sorry for the mini-rant but I can't get over the hypocrisy of someone saying how special and precious their relationship is with the woman they cheat on regularly with hookers.

Those people are cheating husbands. Their wives might see the issue differently. I think it's ironic that a married guy would loudly proclaim his love for a woman as he cheats on her. I've always felt this way about married guys. Needless to say, the married guys here all disagree with me. I've never heard so many rationalizations and justifications for married men who cheat with hookers but proclaim how much they love their wives, who would be DEVASTATED if they found out what their husbands are doing.

>Their wives might see
>the issue differently.
---
They might, they might not. You MIGHT be assuming far too much.

>I think it's ironic that a married
>guy would loudly proclaim his love for a woman as he cheats
>on her.
---
Whats YOUR definition of cheating, is it supposed to be the same for everyone, says you?

(Is it sinking in yet, that people dont get to decide other's marraige foundations?)

>I've always felt this way about married guys.
---
Thats YOUR moral code being assigned to others. Fatal flaw in your argument. DO you also assume that all black men are somehow evil too based on the only fact that they're black and men?

Same thing you're doing. Married + hooker = cheating. Says WHO?

>Needless to say, the married guys here all disagree with me.
---
Not all, just the ones that know you're wrong, cuz you dont know WTH you're talking about in every situation.

>I've never heard so many rationalizations and justifications
>for married men who cheat with hookers but proclaim how much
>they love their wives, who would be DEVASTATED if they found
>out what their husbands are doing.
---
Like I said..they would be, for sure? Bet your life on it?

Never heard of swing clubs, soft swap, hard swap, polyamorous relationships...none of that?

Cheating? Please..that requires an understanding of SOMEONE ELSE'S relationship before you can even attempt to make that assignment.

Fujiwara tofu rocks!

Instead they find all kinds of ways to justify their behavior. Don't get me wrong though, if you are not in a committed relationship, married or otherwise, then I think what happens between consenting adults of sound mind and of their own free will is their business and there is nothing wrong with the hobby. Personally I never touched another woman while I was in committed relationships for 20+ years.

Unless you are in an "open marriage" (as though such a thing actually exists) or "open relationship" which is, in fact, no relationship at all, then you are cheating. Plain and simple.

Read these posts closely. Men cheating on their spouses and finding reasons to explain why there is nothing wrong with that when the real reason is they are addicted to sex. Like you said, in most cases, the wife would be devastated if they knew their SO was fucking a provider and spending money that could be used for other purposes to enrich the family experience. I understand some of the wives may not care, but my guess is that they are in the minority. And my other guess is that for the wives that have quit caring, there is probably little left of the marriage worth saving anyhow; probably just waiting for the kids to grow up so they can dump their SO but they are in fact still married.

So I suggest you just give up trying to convince anyone here that doesn't want to be convinced that they are cheating on their spouse. They would rather not hear it.

Its just sex...and in the right context, its just golf too. And yes, there ARE relationships where one side is SO insanely jealous of the other's hobbies, that golfin with the guys, can become a problem.

Pretty wide range of relationship contracts out there dude.

You did start to say that "most" are a certain way, which would be true, but then closed the door suggesting that the marriages are basically dead anyways.

Fujiwara tofu rocks!

>You know your "life partner"
>would be quite devastated to know that you hire someone ELSE
>to be a cum receptacle twice a week.
---
Says who?

Just like the original article in this thread, this is -another- example of one person assigning their morality to someone else.

It doesnt work that way.

One couples social contract is not the same as another's.

>Sorry for the mini-rant but I can't get over the hypocrisy
---
Then stop exposing your own. Your idea of marriage and it's limits, are not necessarily anyone else's. Hypocrite, indeed. Overbearing conservative Puritan hypocrisy in fact.

>of someone saying how special and precious their
>relationship is with the woman they cheat on regularly with
>hookers.
---
Like I said, depends what 'cheat' means, now dont it.

Fujiwara tofu rocks!

Good point.

Fujiwara tofu rocks!

I don't believe this is because people value marriage. It is rather the culture that imposes marriage on people. I think folks rather value female companionship, kids, etc... but you can get much of that without getting married.

Marriage extracts a heavy price because a man (or a woman) loses much of their freedom/happiness in exchange for the goodies (companionship, kids, ...). For example, if a man likes sex a lot and his wife does not care much for it, he is screwed for life. Thank God for RB!

This applies both ways, for men and women. Also, I used the example of sex. You can say the same thing about money, or any other important matter. Just look at the stats on why people divorce.

>I think
>folks rather value female companionship, kids, etc... but
>you can get much of that without getting married.
---
Well..if ya dont know..then it cant be explained to you either. Its moer than that. At some level, having a family provides meaning...but like I said..

>Marriage extracts a heavy price because a man (or a woman)
>loses much of their freedom/happiness in exchange for the
>goodies (companionship, kids, ...).
---
What heavy price are healthy relationships paying again? Good god man...loss of freedom, loss of happiness? What ex wife ran your dog over?

>For example, if a man
>likes sex a lot and his wife does not care much for it, he
>is screwed for life. Thank God for RB!
---
Ah..back to "culture imposing marriage on people"..yes, if someone feels required somehow to marry, you end up with shit like this.

But..all men are not unkempt animals. Sex comes and goes, so to speak, and a healthy relationship is not defined by it. Except for Captain Caveman who 'cant live without it'...thats how you end up with "shit like that".

You take cues on these things from other people not compatible for marriage, or were you a victim of a broken one yourself? Either is fine, but the party-line of the incompatible is to assign THEIR value system onto others, and if they dont like it, THEY are the problem. Pretty fucked up huh?

>This applies both ways, for men and women. Also, I used the
>example of sex. You can say the same thing about money, or
>any other important matter. Just look at the stats on why
>people divorce.
---
Yup..mostly people that shouldnt have gotten married in the first place OR people that one one side or the other, stopped growing up at some point and were left behind in the relationship.

Maturity doesnt end at 18, 25, 30...people are always given the chance to mature further, some choose not to, and thats destructive to any relationship over the long term.

My sister, who is a PhD in Sociology and a corporate marriage counselor in Dallas (whod've thought that the corporate scene would be wide enough for someone to practice THIS in it profitably) and I have had a lot of discussions on why marriages fail (not including the ones that implode immediately..within 5yrs) and along with maturity over time, is objectivity.

I would, IMHO, offer that you're already lacking the required amount of objectivity to play the game successfully at all...and thats OK, just dont project your weaknesses upon others. (IE: Lack of social objectivity)

Fujiwara tofu rocks!

I agree that having a family provide meaning, but a family can be defined in many ways. It can be wife/kids, but it can also be parents, brother/sisters, friends, etc...

>yes, if someone feels required somehow to marry, you end up with shit like this.<

Sorry, my friend. We all do. Very few people get married because they want to. Most of us marry because that's the things to do in this culture. We start to date at an early age, then one day we feel it's time to get married and we end marrying whoever we're dating at that time. That's mostly driven by seeing our buddies getting married, attending weddings, and the culture pushing us that way.

>Maturity doesnt end at 18, 25, 30...people are always given the chance to mature further<

That's another formidable obstacle to marriage. Two people may love and care about each other when they are in their mid 20s. However, as they age, they may diverge and marriage, as it is today, does not allow for that. For example, those two people may be very different when they are in their 40s than when they were in their 20s. That's just how life is.

That's why someone said "marriage, as an institution, has been a failure" and I totally agree with that statement.

>you're already lacking the required amount of objectivity to play the game successfully at all...and thats OK, just dont project your weaknesses upon others<

That's quite a statement, on me, based on the little bit I wrote. I would hate to see what else you would say about me now.

>Most of us marry because that's the
>things to do in this culture. We start to date at an early
>age, then one day we feel it's time to get married and we
>end marrying whoever we're dating at that time. That's
>mostly driven by seeing our buddies getting married,
>attending weddings, and the culture pushing us that way.
---
Thats..deep. How old are you?

>>Maturity doesnt end at 18, 25, 30...people are always given the chance to mature further<
>
>That's another formidable obstacle to marriage. Two people
>may love and care about each other when they are in their
>mid 20s. However, as they age, they may diverge and
>marriage, as it is today, does not allow for that.
---
Of course it does. WTF..marriage doesnt allow for personal & mutual growth?

>For
>example, those two people may be very different when they
>are in their 40s than when they were in their 20s. That's
>just how life is.
---
And relationships based on trust and caring have miles of flexibility to deal with that. Accepting that life brings changes is part of marriage. Its in the vows..not to be spoken, but understood. Its a shame that many dont accept it.

>That's why someone said "marriage, as an institution, has
>been a failure" and I totally agree with that statement.
---
I suppose that people incompatible with marriage certainly do feel that way. But..it's a point of view, from people not compatible with it.

>>you're already lacking the required amount of objectivity to play the game successfully at all...and thats OK, just dont project your weaknesses upon others<
>
>That's quite a statement, on me, based on the little bit I
>wrote. I would hate to see what else you would say about me
>now.
---
What you wrote then, and continue to write, is STILL a complete lack of objectivity on the issue. You didnt have to write much to make that crystal clear.

You're assigning value statements to people and situations you refuse to accept are different than your own. You're doing that very very well.

I aint makin it up dude. Sorry that you refuse to see that.

Fujiwara tofu rocks!