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Reading Topic #43844

The7thStorehouse The7thStorehouse rating
Member since 9-Jan-04
793 posts, 16 feedbacks, 32 points
20-Apr-10, 09:04 PM (PST)
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"The value of money"
 
   I asked in an earlier post for members to comment on an issue that is popular on many minds, men and women alike. What is the difference between a $300 and a $900 escort? While most said that the $900 for looking for suckers, at least one gave good reasons to show that certain women can command that (and higher) rates.

I recall a time when there were thresholds beyond which people simply would not pay. Someone may pay $1...$2...even $5 for coffee. But nobody (and I mean NOBODY) would pay $10 for a cup. Only in a situation where the supply was so limited and the demand was so high and the need is so immediate would a buyer likely go beyond personal (and collective even) thresholds to acquire something. But in normal circumstances, we people knew our limits...and would not go beyond them.

But these are strange times. If there was a seller of coffee at $10...$20...even $30+...I bet a buyer will show up. And not just one but many. And under normal conditions to boot! No imbalance of supply and demand and no immediate need either. Maybe just quirky, or has no concept of true value, or just happen to have such an amount of cash in the wallet.

I make very good money, but I still retain the old ways. I shop, I research, I make my money work for me. I don't get pulled in by sensational talk or spend on perceived value. Good coffee has been no more than a couple bucks to me...and if I can't get it at that price, then so be it. I don't miss it nor do I have any feelings afterward of regret or remorse for not buying it. And this goes for everything including sex. If an escort is charging more than the going rate, my instincts kick in and I move on. I feel blessed that I have an inner filtration system that is strong and intact...weeds out the bullsh*t so fast and furious that there is nil time dwelling on it.

Each of us needs to know that value of money in order to know what is a good deal. It is interesting to me how many people pay a lot of money for something that can be had for much much less. But I suppose this is something that people have to learn from their own experiences.

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dark_mirror dark_mirror rating
Member since 23-Apr-05
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20-Apr-10, 09:52 PM (PST)
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1. "RE: The value of money"
In response to message #0
 
I have learned that things are not valued anymore --if they ever were-- for their intrinsic price (materials, labor, effort to bring it to the store), but their value is driven by supply and demand and what people are willing to pay for it regardless. It hardly seems "fair", or honest, or even correct, but it is the way in which we seem to be moving things. In this way, a simple cup of coffee sold in the streets of Colombia, made of the same finest grains, is worth only one dollar --maybe-- while the same cup served at the lobby of the Waldorf hotel in NY is worth $4.99 because people pay that for it and continue to buy it.

And, as you say, knowing the value of money, and been able to recognize a good deal or negotiate one is a skill, which is not always easy to learn and even less easy to master. Many people are impulsive buyers to their own detriment and to the joy and benefit of the sellers including the sex industry. It boils down to become a smart buyer, as you seem to imply. Is there a for dummies book on using escort services? =)

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bone69 bone69 rating
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21-Apr-10, 00:09 AM (PST)
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2. "RE: The value of money"
In response to message #0
 
   How about posing the question a different way. Instead of a provider selling (will she find any takers at her price), lets pose the question from the viewpoint of the hobbier wanting.

You could find find RAs that are attractive and give good service in the SF Bay Area ($200), LA ($250-$300)and other places. You could even find some gems in the lower cost range although the good ones are rare or you may have to compromise on looks/age. They serve the primary reason most of us are here on RB for. To satisfy our "urge" with the best looking provider we can find at a reasonable cost. We struggle with balancing Looks, Service and Cost (LSC). Compromise on Looks and/or Service to find someone at the rate willing to pay. Or find the best in Looks/Service and to hell with the cost.

Assuming you can afford to spend a lot more on hobbying, what would it take for an RA to be worth $500, $800, $1000 and up?

Would it be DDG looks, RBGFE++ service, special services like greek, BB, exclusivity, sophistication, attitude, discretion, etc.

What would it take for you to upgrade from $200/hr AAMP girls to $800 escorts (besides a larger bank account)?

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President_Bush President_Bush rating
Member since 12-Sep-03
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21-Apr-10, 09:11 AM (PST)
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3. "RE: The value of money"
In response to message #0
 
These high priced escorts are able to command those prices because the men are very lonely and are not spending $900 an hour, they are paying much more for overnights as Tra said in the other post and having conversations about a variety of subjects as if they are in a real relationship. He even thinks some are close friends and as I said they are close friends with his $6000, not him. Another fellow in the original post talked about his collegue who took escorts to work social functions, it is really pathethic to be showing off like that.

Now if the question is if $900 an hour is a reasonable amount to pay and that is all no multi hour sessions or overnights, it obviously depends on the escort. Right now Ashley Dupre who was Governor Spitzers escort is in Playboy and I saw the pictures. In my opinion she is not worth $900 yet charged much more through her agency. There are some absolutely gorgeous models, Victoria's secret, Playboy etc. If you really wanted to have sex with such a beauty who was doing escorting also and couldn't find someone similiar for $300 then it does make sense. Though as I said these high priced escorts aren't getting $900 they are finding lonely rich men who want to pretend they have a real girlfriend and spend the night, take to social functions etc and get much more then simply $900.

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The7thStorehouse The7thStorehouse rating
Member since 9-Jan-04
793 posts, 16 feedbacks, 32 points
21-Apr-10, 09:55 AM (PST)
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5. "RE: The value of money"
In response to message #3
 
   I enjoyed Tra's story and everything he said makes sense. There ARE buyers of pussy at $6000. No doubt about it. But here's the thing. I too could pay $6000 for an overnight with one of those. But nothing in my being will allow it. I just know deep down in my soul that it's all perceived. The experience with a $6000 girl is not going to be 20 times better than a $300 girl. Not 10 times better...not 5 times better...not even twice better. I don't know why anyone would want to have EVERYTHING with just one girl in a 24-hour period. That's why most of us "normal" people make friends. We have the tennis player buddy...we have another pal who's an intellectual...and we hang out with another one who likes to drink cheap beer and watch spaghetti westerns...or we have the semi-hot unavailable female friend who we flirt with (and think about when we masturbate). We go see a stripper for the dance...an asian massage for the sensual touch...a SW for the thrill of a quickie. All of the above and more can be had by having relations with various people over long periods of time for much less...yet people pay $6000 to get everything overnight from just one woman? Insane, if you ask me. People are priceless...I get that. But service has a going rate no matter who the person is providing it...and only fools don't see the difference.

They sell a burger at the Wynn for $10,000. So far, they've sold 6 since they began offering it. Except for the cheese that cost them $1000/lb, everything about the rest of the burger is average at best. I want to get into the heads of those buyers...why did they buy it? Was it to impress friends? Was the cost to them pennies on the dollar? Did they actually feel afterward that the burger is worth 10 grand? To me, those Wynn burgers are like the highly-overpriced hookers. If there is a taker, then that's like hitting the lottery. But if not, well...the other things they do to earn a living are intact.

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andy_is_randy
Member since 1-Dec-09
27 posts
21-Apr-10, 02:51 PM (PST)
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12. "RE: The value of money"
In response to message #5
 
   If you're a sports star, actor in Vegas or some wall street dude w/millions in the bank, what difference does it make if a burger is $10 or $10K? For a very small percentage of the population, the price of a thing or service no longer has any meaning. If you want to eat a burger, you eat it and handover your black card or just say bill it to my room. Same probably goes for escorts.... If I'm super rich, what does it matter if the escort is 300 or 3000/hr?

So you're right, for these people, there's no value in money anymore.

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tangoman tangoman rating
Member since 19-Jan-05
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21-Apr-10, 09:38 AM (PST)
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4. "surroundings"
In response to message #0
 
   Coffee at the typical 7-11 is as good as coffee anywhere, but eye-candy babes are sorely lacking in their stores, so it's not worth my time to go there, despite the low cost.

I choose shopping sites first as to potential for attractive females within, second for price. As life goes by, being near beautiful women is of higher value.

Regarding the other post on Ashley Dupre, the Playboy pictorial can't convey how her voice sounds, what she smells like, or how fine it may be to taste her. Many traits other than looks go into price points.

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kelvin0123456789
Member since 9-Aug-09
86 posts
21-Apr-10, 10:09 AM (PST)
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6. "RE: surroundings"
In response to message #4
 
   To my very surprise, most of the valuable
things in life came as freebies or are very cheap.

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tra4fun tra4fun rating
Member since 21-Feb-07
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21-Apr-10, 10:56 AM (PST)
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7. "RE: surroundings"
In response to message #6
 
7th......

Again, the keyword is perception. It is interesting the analogies used here to draw comparison.

Coffee for example.

Just yesterday I had to go to the Apple Store and got in line to wait and the young man suggested I go over to Starbucks for a coffee while I waited. So, like a good American I headed over there and stood in line and while I was there I decided to turn around and just go back and wait. I said to myself.....(which is the truth) I don't really like Starbucks coffee that much. I would only order that tiny little cup and wouldn't enjoy it at all. However, there were maybe 5 people in line all talking about the Frappa this and Cappa that. Not for me, but these folks really seemed to enjoy the entire experience and the 'perception' Starbucks has put in their heads.

The same applies to women and the money is an ancillary value to the total/overall experience.

Who knows who I'm going to see this week. Most likely I'll see Jennifer Matsui again. Like I said, I enjoyed Jennifer immensely but she doesn't fit into the same category as Evita Moren for ME.

Perhaps I'll ask Evita for an rendevous! My first choice. MINE.

ME, not YOU or anyone else.

I've been at this for a very long time and I have developed a personal understanding of what makes me happy.

Starbucks doesn't do it. Yuban does,

Jennifer does it but Evita DOES IT for me.

It's all beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Money doesn't make one girl more beautiful or the experience with her more enjoyable. It's the personal connection, chemistry, etc., etc..

These are interesting threads as well, but they always seem to turn into some back and forth about who's an idiot and who's not.

It's not about that. Those who have been there like gjs in the other thread, understand. Those who cannot get beyond the money issue will never know.

tra

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SuperSugarDad SuperSugarDad rating
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21-Apr-10, 01:17 PM (PST)
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8. "RE: surroundings"
In response to message #7
 
Well for me, I like Quality along with quanity. If I have 600 for the week to play, and there are 3 women that are of equal tallent and looks, and each likes the money as well as the sex and its done for 200.00 then I get to see 3 beautiful tallented women. To be honest, The sexy women that are on RB that are in the 200-250 range are trully some of the best RB has to offer. If one treats me real well, and say we go over, then my appreaciation is shown in a tip after the donation. Its very rare, (and I only know of 2 personaly)
That when you are cherged 300+ that they are really worth every penny. the only draw back. I do not get to see them as much as I would like.. infact I wish I could all of them more often!

SSD

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Chemistry Chemistry rating
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21-Apr-10, 01:34 PM (PST)
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9. "RE: The value of money, the experience of sex"
In response to message #0
 
LAST EDITED ON 21-Apr-10 AT 01:57 PM (PST)
 
So many things I could say in reply, I'll try to keep it brief... yeah right!

First: like you, Storehouse, I'm pretty well-paid, but I'm frugal. My favorite thing to do is to make the things that I already own last a long time, and serve me well. I'm a saver. I'll be thanking myself during my retirement.

Second: when I do spend money, I would never pay for something that I don't personally, deeply appreciate or enjoy. The idea of spending money to impress other people strikes me as the height of insecurity. Men who spend money to appear at a highfalutin' social function with some arm candy should be giving some serious thought to the emptiness of their inner lives.

However: I will spend a fair amount of money sampling and exploring things that I enjoy. I often find that, after getting educated, I don't have to spend a fortune to enjoy myself. Let me give two examples.

I have a fairly educated palate for food and drink. I've done a fair amount of wine tasting. What I've learned is that there's a lot of great, affordable wine out there. I've rarely gained anything by spending more than $25 for a bottle. There are quite a few very good $8 bottles of wine to be found. (These are retail prices, BTW, not restaurant prices.)

My brother, who also likes wine, generally agrees with me where the perception of taste is concerned. But he'll spend $50 and up for what he calls "je ne sais quoi." I think that's silly.

I also enjoy coffee, and have posted about it here on RB. Now, here my tastes might be considered expensive, but I don't think that it costs all that much. And in this case, I'm also buying something other than just taste. I'm an environmentalist. I want to buy organic, shade-grown, Fair Trade coffees. That will add as much as 50% to the cost of a cup.

Am I trying to impress anyone with my purchase? No one would know unless I told them, and I generally don't. Sure, I'm talking to you about it here, but I'm nobody on an Internet forum.

I've also found a way to economize AND improve the taste of my coffee at the same time. I brew at home. Fresh-ground beans every morning and a French press are how I roll. When all is said and done, I'm spending less than 50 cents a cup, plus a few minutes of my time, to brew a great mug of coffee.

And now, back to sex. Where hobbying is concerned, I'm quite new. I've only sessioned three times so far, with two providers. But I'm already figuring out that my experiences with these ladies, pleasant though they were, are missing some things that put sex over the top for me. Can you pay for some of what I'm missing? Probably. All of it? Maybe not.

What's missing for me? Well, total skin-on-skin contact for one. There's no beating bareback. I used condoms with my wife for the first few years. After we had the one kid we were going to have, I had myself a little operation. It was one of the best things I ever did for my sex life.

Can you pay for BBFS? Sure. Can you feel safe about it with an ordinary provider? Hell no. Now, in theory, you COULD make BBFS with a provider into a safe experience. But how would you go about doing that? STD tests for both of you, and then exclusivity.

You would certainly not want the lady to work between the time of her tests, and the time when you receive the results and decide to take off the protection. That's a lot of lost work time for her. So, how could you possibly justify compensating her for that? You would likely plan on seeing her for quite a while, to "amortize your costs," so to speak. You would essentially have to put a lady on a "retainer," and become her sugar daddy. Serious money is required. That kind of money, I don't have. But if I did, would I pay? Honestly, I'm not sure.

I have found one other thing to be lacking in my sexual encounters with providers. Since I'm a foodie, it should not surprise you that I appreciate having my sense of smell stimulated. I love the smell of female flesh as much as I love picking out the notes in the bouquet of a glass of good wine. The smell of the nape of her neck, AND the smell of her kitty when I DATY.

When you meet a provider, you expect that they've showered and douched just before you arrive. The two providers I met certainly did just that. But while that means that the sweat (or worse, any other bodily fluids) of other men are not part of your sexual encounter, it ALSO means that HER scent is washed away.

Now, when you date a civilian, it's different. Sure, she showered before you went out. But then it's dinner and a movie -- and five hours later when you finally end up in bed together, she smells like a woman, top to bottom. And it's heavenly.

My wife has always been self-conscious about the smell of her nether regions. The fact that I told her the smell was great only influenced her opinion a little bit. After she got a few random urinary tract infections, about a decade into our marriage (no, I wasn't responsible), she got positively obsessive about cleaning herself. These days, her scent is scarcely more noticeable than either of the providers I visited -- and in spite of her efforts she still gets a random UTI now and then, sometimes even when we haven't had sex for weeks.

One of the things I was hoping to experience again, after years of deprivation, was that intoxicating female fragrance. I did the panty-sniffing thing for a few years. It was hit-or-miss for me.

Can you ask a provider to NOT shower or douche for several hours before she meets you? I suppose it depends on her ability to understand and accept the request. More critically, it depends on her schedule. IF she is someone who keeps regular hours, and you can arrange to be her first appointment of the day, maybe this is not an inconvenience for her. But for some of these ladies, even some of the better-paid ones, it seems like they'll see someone 24/7. So they might ask you to pay for your request.

I haven't tried to make any special requests of a provider just yet. I'm not quite sure how to navigate through the "no explicit conversations over the phone" problem, even with someone who has already seen me. Do I have to make my request during a session? Since the provider that I saw twice didn't quite remember me the second time (admittedly, my two visits were about 6 weeks apart), how can I signal to her that I'm coming, and as she may recall, I asked her to do something the next time I visit?

The third item that I'm missing from my sexual encounters with providers is a good conversation. Apparently, this can be bought. The ladies who do multi-hour sessions will have more time to talk to you, of course, and they also tend to be more educated.

And finally: even if I barebacked my way through a great session with a lovely lady without an over-sanitized kitty -- would I feel the same high as I did when my wife and I rocked each others' worlds? I wonder if you can buy that, at any price.

Thanks for reading all the way through!

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tangoman tangoman rating
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21-Apr-10, 01:42 PM (PST)
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10. "RE: all the way thru"
In response to message #9
 
   Historical note.

Message sent ahead from Napoleon to Josephine, as he returned from battle to the outskirts of Paris:

Don't wash!!

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Chemistry Chemistry rating
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21-Apr-10, 01:52 PM (PST)
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11. "RE: all the way thru"
In response to message #10
 
I knew that joke already!

Thanks for reading all the way through, I hope others will have more to add.

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mvlyr1972
Member since 17-Apr-03
22 posts
21-Apr-10, 03:24 PM (PST)
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13. "RE: all the way thru"
In response to message #11
 
   Tra is right. One's own perception is what dominates.
Ten dollars for coffee after a meal in a Michelin 3 star restaurant fits in with the whole setting and perception of those who want such an experience. A Camry and a basic Lexus are virtually the same but priced quite differently!
Perception is especially important when it comes to hobbying. Personal chemistry and connection trump pricing and even looks many a times!

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dickinaround dickinaround rating
Member since 16-Mar-06
2296 posts, 27 feedbacks, 47 points
21-Apr-10, 03:34 PM (PST)
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14. "RE: The value of money"
In response to message #0
 
   The intrinsic value of money becomes pretty clear based on personal experiences and values.

For me, it's more about the preceived value that makes it worth more. Or the quest to find that something special... or so I believe, as I'm more captured w/ the intrinsic value of money to really let my preception get outta hand.

One thing for sure, it's a hobbying heaven here and a smart man can live a happy life with the right mix of company.


Just Dick-in-around

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ronj2000
Member since 22-May-06
68 posts
21-Apr-10, 07:47 PM (PST)
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15. "RE: The value of money"
In response to message #0
 
   Was watching a show a few years back where 10 random women, shopping in a high end boutique where pulled aside and asked if they knew the difference between a Louis Vuitton purse and a $50 knock off. The women were allowed to pick up the purses, feel them, smell them, hold them, etc. Out of the 10 women, 4 correctly identified which purse was a Louis Vuitton and which was a knock off.

Yet all 10 women identified them selves as high-end shoppers.

The hookers (you can call them high-end escorts if you want) that identify themselves as high-end are using the same marketing concepts that the makers of Louis Vuitton purses are using. They figured out that some people are drawn to the perception that they are getting something great, when in fact all they’re getting is something worth $50.

I actually admire these hookers, not for their so called intellect, but for their street smarts. Essentially, they are the drug lords of prostitution – they are expert hustlers


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dj209 dj209 rating
Member since 6-Apr-10
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22-Apr-10, 01:21 AM (PST)
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16. "RE: The value of money"
In response to message #15
 
   7th Storehouse thanks for creating another thread and continuing with this topic. This subject is something we all can learn and benefit from in this RB brotherhood. I don't understand why this President Bush handle is attacking a well respected member "tra4fun". T4f is simply contributing to this thread the events and experiences his had throughout the course of his hobby and somehow PB has taken this to another level and out of context by continuing to disrespect and insult this gentlemen. PB I wasn't to thrilled with your presidency that left many financially INSOLVANT. Its best you clam back up into your undisclosed location because I dont want to call you by your first name 'DICK' !! Its ok to disagree but no need to put anyone down!

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tra4fun tra4fun rating
Member since 21-Feb-07
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22-Apr-10, 09:44 AM (PST)
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17. "RE: The value of money"
In response to message #16
 
dj.....

Thanks for your kind comments. It's true and I've said it any number of times....

There are always those who insist on focusing the attention on insults and flames but I'll tell you that in all reality they don't have much of an affect on me.

Like I explained I've played at all levels of the hobby, and actually I've started writing the book which will be 'some time' in the making. If you have an interest in reading a couple of my '''chapters''' I'd be happy to inbox them to you.

At present, I still play in the hobby on a number of levels. Now if you think about it, our goal as hobbyists is to exact the greatest experience for monies spent that we're comfortable with.

Truth: I've actually stopped the great provider search having found my 'holy grail' in one particular young woman who I mention above. I'll predict that she'll be my ATF until I really retire, not for health reasons but when it's time.

My first 'very expensive' ATF was with me for 6 1/2 years and retired after turning her business model into an exit strategy that she planned from the very beginning. (reviews on RB) Her name was Aliyanna Lee who presented herself to the hobby world with a 3 hour minimum at $1500 and never did a 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2 or anything less than a 3 hour date and she followed a strategy to turn that into 3 hours at $2500. Just about to a man the common report called her 'a very clever young woman', which she was. When she retired, bought a couple of brand new German cars and went into business, she was somewhere around 26 years old. Imagine retiring with a box of money at that age. Hell I'm 62 and only recently retired. I don't think we give these girls enough credit for what was described in the Luis Vuitton analogy considering what they could be doing with their lives. I found her to be brilliant and spent considerable time with her.

Now my perspective is ATF is singular and once she was gone I thought I'd never find another. However, one evening in April of 2009 I got a severe slap from another young lady and was greatly fortunate to find another girl who fit my ATF criteria. And, here we are talking about money again.

What would I pay my new friend? I don't care what she says. It's not about money. I've told her this as well. Her business model is very different than Aliyanna's, yet it is perfect for her and works. It makes her happy.

It's not about the economics for me and MANY very quiet, UTR hobbyists who float behind the scenes and play for undisclosed amounts. It's about that intangible, indescribable, untouchable, quality that begins with 'perception' and ends up making a man do handstands on Van Ness at noon naked with a sign that says....

'I'D MARRY YOU BABY IF ONLY YOU'D TELL ME WHERE YOU ARE' lol.

tra

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SuperSugarDad SuperSugarDad rating
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22-Apr-10, 10:27 AM (PST)
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18. "RE: The value of money"
In response to message #17
 
I love how there is a relation to other things in life that we compare to our feeling on our loving Providers. So here is one of Mine.

As a Kid growning up the baseball glove to have was the WILSON A2000
It was the crem ala crem of baseball gloves. All the big leagers were using them, however!! at that time in the early 70's the glove cost about $45.00. now you may also remember that with the open handed glove, the thing to do was put your index finger on the out side of the Glove. it was cool and there was a little extra padding as to not hurt your hand if you caught the ball near the palm of your hand. Well Baseball season was quickly approaching, and if you know anything it takes a good 2 weeks to break in a new glove.

Well I was about $15.00 short, and since we were a low income family with no dad to help, Mom couldnt help me out. So I went to our local sports store to talk to the Owner and see if I could work somthing out. Instead, he showed me a new glove made by RAWLINGS. Called the Wingtip. It was a closed Glove with a hole where the index finger was to go. He said, I think you will like this glove, and Its only $20.00, and with the money you have left over you can get some balls to play with.(no RB pun Intended)

That was in 1972, I used that glove all through High School and in the Military, I played another 10 years of Fastpitch Softball, and the only repair I had to do was with the finger laces. I gave that glove to my Daughter when she started playing Softball her Freshman year in HS. She storred just like I did when I wasnt using it.

I guess the Moral of My story, Sometimes the finer things in life are not always the ones that are the most expensive. For thoes Providers that I have had the Oppertunity to see and be pleased by!
Thank you deeply from the bottom of my Heart. SSD.

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dickinaround dickinaround rating
Member since 16-Mar-06
2296 posts, 27 feedbacks, 47 points
22-Apr-10, 10:31 AM (PST)
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19. "RE: The value of money"
In response to message #17
 
   The value of money is NOT as valuable as the intent, the perception, the choice of company, and the direction things go. Money only allows us to try.

Very well said and I look forward to reading your new best seller before it's made into a movie.

All to often, I look @ money from my own perspective, that is, how much does that cost? Is it worth that much? Whenever I try to see things from her side, it's almost always someone trying to work themselves out of a hole, rather than build a nest egg for the future.

To be able to find and spend time w/ someone who has all the physical traits, professional skills, focus & integrity, and the emotional wisdom and patience to include someone like me into her life is truly a mastercard moment. Maybe more than the intimate times spent together, is seeing her realize a new life of financial freedom far away from this business?

So in the end, it's not about how much did it cost? Rather what did it buy?

Just Dick-in-around

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tra4fun tra4fun rating
Member since 21-Feb-07
4410 posts, 92 feedbacks, 147 points
22-Apr-10, 11:36 AM (PST)
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20. "Tra-Scapades Chapter #1 lol"
In response to message #19
 
Some have encouraged me to chronicle my years in the hobby, especially my favorite little morsel who tells me my stories are interesting and I should jot down the 43 years of fun I've had.
When I started writing this, I really started to giggle out-loud at some of the stuff, mostly that which is to come.

So, here are the first 2 entries.

No, I'm not a writer by trade, thanks in advance for the comments hahahahahahaha, so easy on the punctuation critics

tra

We Wake Our Children

"The Battle of A Shau was waged in 1966 during the "Vietnam War" between the "North Vietnamese Army" and the forces of the "United States" and "South Vietnam". The battle began on March 9 and lasted until March 10 with the fall of the special forces camp of the same name. The battle was an outright victory for the North Vietnamese; it was nevertheless a costly battle that U.S. estimates suggest cost the attackers almost half of their force."

Willy Ratliff carried me out of the A Shau Valley after almost 2 days of non-stop battling. Noise beyond the imagination, death of our brothers-in-arms, fear and sadness never to be equaled. My body was weary and beat up but my mind was on hold and never to be quite the same 'beautiful boy', as my mom called me. I'd grown up in a hurry and would struggle a lifetime to maintain my happy-go-lucky spirit, yet I had survived. Now, on the corner of Clement Street, there sat Willy under a cardboard box cover. His home, complete with candles and just about anything one could want. Willy had survived too, but his outlook on life had been minimalist over these last 43 years and he was still a hero of mine. He slogged the two of us out of the mess, me on his shoulders, his strength still in tact, and never looked back. Here in San Francisco Willy had found a place near the Veterans Administration Hospital to live out his days tortured in the darkness, a lot like me, yet in one piece.

Over the last year taking the morphine they'd given me for my pain, I began to have dreams, crazy dreams of things that didn't make sense. For example: the other night I woke up from a deep sleep swatting the pillow next to me, running from something I couldn't recall, yet in complete and total fear of whatever it was. Willy recalled the same kinds of things. It was a reminder of how delicate the mind is. It really is clear that it doesn't take much to shake the human spirit or cause one to do things that are abnormal.

My tinitis is something caused by the unknown, yet I'm told that the 'zip zip zip zip' of the fire fights and of course the VERY loud music I'd experienced beginning mostly in the 70's and there it was again consuming my every fiber with the constant volume in the middle of my head. I hadn't realized it until recent explanations, but the tinitis began during our stay in the A Shau Valley, 'zip zip zip zip'.

After our first shower in many days, now after New Years attempting to purge the ugliness from our physical beings again, we were off to Saigon for R&R, and this is where my life changed forever when it came to the subject of young women and me. Here we were in a bar, drunk off our asses, trying to forget (the impossible), admiring the view of the young Vietnamese women just wishing we could feel the lovely warm, silken sensation surrounding not only our bodies but inside our fragile minds. Willy and I had somehow managed to stay together in the same outfit since A Shau and now were going to finally get to really laugh it up for once.

And here is where I was introduced th Anh. My beginning of paying women for sex. And, as we're called now....becoming a hobbyist. January 11th 1967

I'm sure she was the single most gorgeous sight I'd seen in months; perfectly proportioned. And, here I was being propositioned by someone I called MamaSan, who obviously was Anh's mother. This woman was screeching at me in that high pitched, monotone that cliche' we've all heard after dark in Asian environments.....'She love you long time G.I.', and.....'C'mon G.I., you try, you like'. Dee-Dee-Mao! That would be the English version of what was being said and in a curious way struck me as cute and funny at the same time. Not only had Willy trudged me, heartbroken out of the abyss, but he'd also introduced me to MamaSan. Willy was a player. A man of great wisdom and incredible charm, Willy had resources for everything. But, by far, this was the most intriguing connection I'd seen from him. Willy had access to as many as 10 or more young women in Saigon and had promised me all of them. And, I was hell-bent for leather to give it a try with all the energy I'd saved up over the last year or so.

And, now.....there sat Willy. Dirty, unshaven, almost completely toothless and that nasty shade of brown men become when homeless and stinky. Fingers burned by the cigarettes he simply allowed to burn through his skin. Camel unfiltered cigarettes. Stinky like the latrines in The Nam. And, frightful in appearance. My hero, the once outwardly rich in character and spirit, Willy Ratliff, now a broken shadow of the man who once led an entire (surviving) platoon away from the horrors of war into the brilliantly, neon soaked night life of Saigon to chase ladies with a fervor reserved for men who were horny with a capital 'H'.

And as he did we sang, drank like there was no future, and fucked. Outwardly and with the glee of teenagers just out of puberty, yet having become men in a way that defies the human spirit. Fucked in a way that would make our mother's blush. After all, sex was to be reserved for those who were in love as explained by our Catholic, Baptist, Christian and otherwise puritanical families.

And Now We're Men

Saigon is a bustling city in the south of Vietnam also known as Ho Chi Minh City bustling with life, scooters buzzing a mile a minute through the streets and little communities settled in the most indescribable locations. I wondered how people navigated the city without being eviscerated by these motorized, 2 wheeled weapons. And, to say the women are beautiful is a substandard description of possibly the most gorgeous young ladies in the world.

MamaSan put "bánh cuon" and other of the 5 elements in front of me and told me to eat with the voice of authority. Having learned from Willy that it's an insult to pass, there I found myself eating stuff that resembled worms and other delicacies fit for the most strident of locals. Considered an honor to be fed like this before bedding down.

Anh; a diminutive, angelic looking young woman, with a certain blush to her cheeks, perfectly proportioned and fetching in her demeanor, a lot like many of the young working girls I've met throughout my life. I could never describe her truly, but the one word I've used so often in my life when recounting this story is magnificent. She had a full length white, silk kimono adorned with brilliant embroidery of a delicate, very light orange, with full length pants of a turquoise color that looked a little like a sports outfit, common today. Resplendent! Her jet black hair reaching her knees, straight and shimmering shiny and gleaming white teeth smiling at me from behind the shy little girl that she was. So, there I was shaking with glee that I was certain to find out how wonderful it felt to match up with a beautiful woman for the first time after exchanging money. MamaSan settled on the equivalent of $14.00 U.S.D for me to spend the night with Anh and we retired to her room in the back of the hut with something similar to a batik curtain and beads, separating us from the rest of their home and proceeded to bathe each other with my loins just raging, yet in no hurry realizing that I would re-live this for a lifetime. During the night as she sat on top of me, buried into her up to the hilt, I could do nothing but look up and marvel at her beauty. And there it was....the warm, wet, silken skin engulfing me like perfectly fit glove. Realizing that this was a young woman meant for this endeavor, destined to spend her younger years making men happy. Knowing that one day one soldier would spirit her away from her home and make her his. This was a rollicking good time I must say. Not a little bittersweet in recalling now years later.

I'd finally stood the test of the time honored relationship between a man and a girl for hire and I was a happy man. Tired, sweaty and satiated we slept until light and were greeted by, you know who, with breakfast of sticky rice (xoi) and more. More to my liking, I ate like a man on a mission, standing to bow, thank them both and watch as Anh sidled away in to the back of the home, looking over her shoulder, and with an expression so soft and clearly full of gratitude, disappeared.

Later in the day back in the bar Willy simply grinned at me and promised me girl #2 by nightfall, spilling his guts, drunk, a mile a minute telling me that where we'd been in battle had made us men (to a degree) but that staying the night with MamaSan and Anh was the true measure. I'd become a REAL man now and would never look back. And, in his typical way, guffawed out loud and ordered another.

Now 43+ years later, Willy in his cardboard mansion, I realized that his words were prophetic. I'd become a man on his watch both times. I'd survived the worst of the worst battles possibly of the entire Vietnam conflict, landed in Ho Chi Minh City and become a man thanks to Willy. And, here began my education and the search for knowledge of this world. Sometimes dark and fearful, mostly filled with great joys only reserved for those of us who would break through the barriers. Puritanical and otherwise.

We Woke Our Children

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mvlyr1972
Member since 17-Apr-03
22 posts
22-Apr-10, 01:13 PM (PST)
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21. "RE: Tra-Scapades Chapter #1 lol"
In response to message #20
 
   Thank you for sharing!

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Chemistry Chemistry rating
Member since 24-Jan-10
513 posts, 9 feedbacks, 17 points
22-Apr-10, 01:37 PM (PST)
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22. "RE: Tra-Scapades Chapter #1 lol"
In response to message #20
 
Very interesting story, Tra.

You will need to edit a bit. In the first few paragraphs, it sometimes gets a bit confusing to tell when you are talking about yourself, and when you're discussing your friend.

But I'm intrigued. If it ever appeared in a book store, I'd be a customer.

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tra4fun tra4fun rating
Member since 21-Feb-07
4410 posts, 92 feedbacks, 147 points
22-Apr-10, 01:51 PM (PST)
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23. "RE: Tra-Scapades Chapter #1 lol"
In response to message #22
 
LAST EDITED ON 22-Apr-10 AT 01:51 PM (PST)
 
Yah, like I said, I'm not a writer by trade, but if I get serious about it, I'll see if I can find someone to help. I actually asked a young lady who is a prolific writer, we'll have to see.

And then there are 40+ years in the middle. Probably take me until I'm 114.

tra

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Masterdick1 Masterdick1 rating
Member since 30-Mar-07
609 posts, 18 feedbacks, 36 points
22-Apr-10, 02:19 PM (PST)
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24. "RE: Tra-Scapades Chapter #1 lol"
In response to message #20
 
   War is a sad thing for those that have never experienced it.

I can't begin to imagine how terrible it is for those who

have had to live through the actual horror of combat.

It's good that you were able to have some fond memories during

this time in your life. So many become loss in war and

find escape in drugs that would become their curse for life.

Your story is worth reading and should be heard by the world.

Hope you continue too write your story of your life experience.

Good luck to you.

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