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Conferences > Northern California > General > Topic #43945
Reading Topic #43945

tra4fun tra4fun rating
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"Dictionary definition, should clear up a previous question :)"
 
pimp. .[pimp] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a person, esp. a man, who solicits customers for a prostitute or a brothel, usually in return for a share of the earnings; pander; procurer.
2.
a despicable person.
3.
Australia and New Zealand. an informer; stool pigeon.
–verb (used without object)
4.
to act as a pimp.
–verb (used with object)
5.
to act as a pimp for.
6.
to exploit.
Origin:
1630–40; orig. uncert.

Surmise what you will kids!

tra

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ferdinand ferdinand rating
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2. "RE: Dictionary definition, should clear up a previous question :)"
In response to message #0
 
You should be aware that anyone who shares expenses with someone who makes their income from sex work can be charged with pimping/pandering. Suppose you had a provider friend who paid for something for you with her sex work income. That alone is a violation and possible felony.

Most people just aren't aware of how all encompassing California law is. It is the reason most landlords will evict if they suspect they have have sex worker as a renter.

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tra4fun tra4fun rating
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4412 posts, 92 feedbacks, 147 points		 12-May-10, 10:09 AM (PST)
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3. "RE: Dictionary definition, should clear up a previous question :)"
In response to message #2
 
And, God forbid you should book, pimp, pander or any of the aforementioned across state lines.

Does Mann Act ring a bell?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mann_Act

tra

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HandoftheOldSchool HandoftheOldSchool rating
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176 posts, 3 feedbacks, 3 points		 12-May-10, 12:57 PM (PST)
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6. "RE: Dictionary definition, should clear up a previous question :)"
In response to message #3
 
LAST EDITED ON 12-May-10 AT 01:45 PM (PST) by (moderator)
 
HandoftheOldSchool

I'm getting really fucking sick and tired of your drama. Take it to Soapbox or the UG. If you get a post deleted it is because you can't follow the posting rules or your ongoing drama which does not belong here.

http://forum.myredbook.com/cgi-bin/dcforum2/dcboard.pl?az=read_announcements

If you have a post deleted, don't continue to repost over and over and over again, locking up threads like a complete asshole.

Take your stupid drama queen bullshit, flames, and personal attacks against other posters elsewhere. This is NOT a drama forum.

L4B

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tra4fun tra4fun rating
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11. "RE: Dictionary definition, should clear up a previous question :)"
In response to message #6
 
Someone just made a comment to me about what are referred to as 'Gorilla Pimps'.

It seems to me that there are any number of variations on a theme here. Not just the miserable, violent, power hungry style that hurt girls and force them (too young or otherwise) into the business for their own personal gain, and of course free nookie.

There's also the person more literate sitting at a computer with phones going off almost constantly, placing and updating ads, opening discussion board subjects related to girls, new pictures and otherwise. For personal gain and yes, free nookie.

Either way, up or down scale a pimp is a pimp is a pimp.

It just so happens that I have 5-6 emails sent to girls from one of the upscale types that are insulting, power grabbing, nasty, demanding and otherwise offering advice to girls as if they were downright stupid. Calling them names and insinuating things about them personally. It's a standard characteristic of the type.

If one is involved in the business of the sex trade in any capacity of this sort, LE will one day (inevitable) knock on the door, grab the computer and the phones and do their investigation. Convictions? Don't know, but I'll surmise that if LE is involved, it's uncomfortable. If convicted of trafficking over state lines it's most certainly a felony. All the finite little details that people go through to protect themselves from LE are just that, details. LE will decide if there's a crime. Depending on lots of factors ie. political climate, appointments to more powerful positions in whatever agency, you name it. LE is watching and we know it.

The dictionary definition is what is used to create legal statutes. Ignore that or write the law yourself and your deluding yourself.

Be careful friends. It's a jungle out there!

tra

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pohaku pohaku rating
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6233 posts, 133 feedbacks, 239 points		 12-May-10, 05:43 PM (PST)
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12. "Pandering seems more over reaching than pimping"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON 12-May-10 AT 05:54 PM (PST)
 
As Ferdi posted there are many areas even clients could be found guilty. It is scary stuff.

266i pandering

(a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), any person who does any of the following is guilty of pandering, a felony, and shall be punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for three, four, or six years:

(1) Procures another person for the purpose of prostitution.

(2) By promises, threats, violence, or by any device or scheme, causes, induces, persuades or encourages another person to become a prostitute.

(3) Procures for another person a place as an inmate in a house of prostitution or as an inmate of any place in which prostitution is
encouraged or allowed within this state.

(4) By promises, threats, violence or by any device or scheme, causes, induces, persuades or encourages an inmate of a house of prostitution, or any other place in which prostitution is encouraged or allowed, to remain therein as an inmate.

(5) By fraud or artifice, or by duress of person or goods, or by abuse of any position of confidence or authority, procures another person for the purpose of prostitution, or to enter any place in which prostitution is encouraged or allowed within this state, or to come into this state or leave this state for the purpose of prostitution.


and

266h pimping

(a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), any person who,
knowing another person is a prostitute, lives or derives support or
maintenance in whole or in part from the earnings or proceeds of the
person's prostitution, or from money loaned or advanced to or charged
against that person by any keeper or manager or inmate of a house or
other place where prostitution is practiced or allowed, or who
solicits or receives compensation for soliciting for the person, is
guilty of pimping, a felony, and shall be punishable by imprisonment
in the state prison for three, four, or six years.

(b) Any person who, knowing another person is a prostitute, lives
or derives support or maintenance in whole or in part from the
earnings or proceeds of the person's prostitution, or from money
loaned or advanced to or charged against that person by any keeper or
manager or inmate of a house or other place where prostitution is
practiced or allowed, or who solicits or receives compensation for
soliciting for the person, when the prostitute is a minor, is guilty
of pimping a minor, a felony, and shall be punishable as follows:
(1) If the person engaged in prostitution is a minor over the age
of 16 years, the offense is punishable by imprisonment in the state
prison for three, four, or six years.
(2) If the person engaged in prostitution is under 16 years of
age, the offense is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison
for three, six, or eight years.


(6) Receives or gives, or agrees to receive or give, any money or thing of value for procuring, or attempting to procure, another person for the purpose of prostitution, or to come into this state or leave this state for the purpose of prostitution.

(b) Any person who does any of the acts described in subdivision (a) with another person who is a minor is guilty of pandering, a felony, and shall be punishable as follows:
(1) If the other person is a minor over the age of 16 years, the offense is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for three, four, or six years.
(2) If the other person is under 16 years of age, the offense is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for three, six, or eight years.

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ferdinand ferdinand rating
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13. "I think 266(h) is the kicker"
In response to message #12
 
Note some of the language in paragraph (a). Be careful on loaning money to providers.

CAL. PEN. CODE § 266h : California Code - Section 266h
(a)Except as provided in subdivision (b), any person who, knowing another person is a prostitute, lives or derives support or maintenance in whole or in part from the earnings or proceeds of the person's prostitution, or from money loaned or advanced to or charged against that person by any keeper or manager or inmate of a house or other place where prostitution is practiced or allowed, or who solicits or receives compensation for soliciting for the person, is guilty of pimping, a felony, and shall be punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for three, four, or six years.
(b)Any person who, knowing another person is a prostitute, lives or derives support or maintenance in whole or in part from the earnings or proceeds of the person's prostitution, or from money loaned or advanced to or charged against that person by any keeper or manager or inmate of a house or other place where prostitution is practiced or allowed, or who solicits or receives compensation for soliciting for the person, when the prostitute is a minor, is guilty of pimping a minor, a felony, and shall be punishable as follows:
(1)If the person engaged in prostitution is a minor over the age of 16 years, the offense is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for three, four, or six years.
(2)If the person engaged in prostitution is under 16 years of age, the offense is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for three, six, or eight years.

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pohaku pohaku rating
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14. "RE: I think 266(h) is the kicker"
In response to message #13
 
   LAST EDITED ON 12-May-10 AT 06:01 PM (PST)
 
I also thought taking photo or making website, posting ad knowing it is being used for the purpose of marketing sex biz was a no no too.

>or who solicits or receives compensation for soliciting for the person, is guilty of pimping, a felony, and shall be punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for three, four, or six years.

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ferdinand ferdinand rating
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15. "RE: I think 266(h) is the kicker"
In response to message #14
 
Basically, if you provide any sort of service to someone who makes their income from sex work knowing that is how they make their money then you are at risk for a pandering charge. Sure the more attenuated it is the less likelihood of conviction, but does anyone really want to have to prove themselves in court?

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Looking4thebestmoderator
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17. "RE: I think 266(h) is the kicker"
In response to message #15
 
   LAST EDITED ON 12-May-10 AT 07:32 PM (PST)
 
>>> Basically, if you provide any sort of service to someone who makes their income from sex work knowing that is how they make their money then you are at risk for a pandering charge<<<


Well, not to sure about that.
Although I'm not going to browse around for case law or legislative intent to assist with the statute, keeping this agonizingly simple....

If I put an ad on CL to sell my refrigerator and while she's deciding on buying it, mentions she is a Hooker, you don't have to say "Oh no, then I can't sell it to you since I'm deriving income or support from you". Just isn't going to wash.

Likewise, and perhaps a better example, using another kind of "real world" scenario --- Someone owns a small auto repair shop and does a tune-up for a girl who casually mentions she also is a Hooker. Taking it a step further, she likes the job you did and sends 10 of her Escort chums over to have repairs done on their Beemers (which you charge the same amount you would to anyone else), yes, you are deriving income but no one is going to say that you have to refuse service and doubtful that anyone would nor would any prosecution take place based on this situation.

OR.. You happen to be a manager at Taco Bell. On your way to work each day you get a BJ for .20 from a SW. You see her later that afternoon. Do you refuse to sell her a 7 layer burrito since you are deriving support?

OK, I'm getting a bit carried away, the point is that there is a lot more to this and typically reserved for someone who doesn't have any other visible means of support and/or is their sole support. Promoting or doing something that exclusively enhances their business for compensation of some sort gets a bit closer to the intent, but I'll have to refresh and look a lot of this up if interested. Getting to forgetful and memory is fading in old age

Maybe you had a different and more specific scenario. Can you give us some examples?

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ferdinand ferdinand rating
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19. "RE: I think 266(h) is the kicker"
In response to message #17
 
LAST EDITED ON 12-May-10 AT 07:41 PM (PST)
 
First, the real issue is how aggressive do you think local law enforcement will be?. Probably a lot easier to get a conviction in walnut creek than San Francisco. (damn auto caps).

Second, as you pointed out, the more attenuated the relationship the lower the chance of a violation. The people who should be concerned are landlords, roommates/boyfriends/spouses/etc., and misguided hobbyists. How many people here have loaned money to a provider? A slippery slope for sure. I don't think the statute has to be pushed to far to encompass far more people than think they would be subject to it.

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cons_man cons_man rating
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16. "If you let a prostitute live in your house for free"
In response to message #13
 
   LAST EDITED ON 12-May-10 AT 06:50 PM (PST)
 
while she continue providing. Would that get you in trouble too?

Are you hornier as you grow wiser?

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Shellback97 Shellback97 rating
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20. "RE: If you let a prostitute live in your house for free"
In response to message #16
 
LAST EDITED ON 12-May-10 AT 11:03 PM (PST) by (moderator)
 
The legal definitions get a bit fuzzy, but think of these situatons. Your ATF buys you dinner because you're friends and you've been a good client for a long time. No problem. She buys you dinner because you drive her to her incall because her car is in the shop and then pick her up when you are done...felony pandering. She buys you dinner because you let her use your spare bed room to sesson with a couple of friends of yours so she doesn't have to get a room as she swings through town..felony pandering....you get the idea.

It doesn't take much, but at the same time, to actually prove a crime was committed under these scenarios, so long as everyone remembers they have the right to remain silent...and uses it, would be very difficult for any prosecutor.


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tra4fun tra4fun rating
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4412 posts, 92 feedbacks, 147 points		 13-May-10, 07:55 AM (PST)
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21. "RE: If you let a prostitute live in your house for free"
In response to message #20
 
Man oh man!

The more posts from those who truly understand this tells me there's more to consider than meets the eye when taking on the endeavor of booking, pimping, representing and otherwise.

Holy Smokies!

Dangerous stuff!

Again, if LE has an agenda, there's a very good chance that YOU'RE DONE, should you get caught.

tra

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oryx oryx rating
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22. "RE: Dictionary definition, should clear up a previous question :)"
In response to message #0
 
LAST EDITED ON 13-May-10 AT 08:55 AM (PST)
 
Very informative thread and some great feedback by some.

Not to veer off-topic, but shouldn't highly charged personal issues between 2 or so people in this site be more under the radar, or just between the 2 parties to settle, or maybe just walk away from?

Some of the highly charged personal issues seem to be so personal that it can really hurt a lot of other people innocent to the more personal issues between 2 contending people, specially if it spirals further out of control.

I suppose certain people have their own personal vested interests and missions around here. Some may even call it an agenda. How those are handled in a manner where innocent people are not hurt in the process should be considered highly.

Here, let me say it in a more simple way -- as entertaining as some of this shit might be sometimes, may I recommend settling your personal shit offline?


-Oryx

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cons_man cons_man rating
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23. "Oryx, you sound like my ethics professor"
In response to message #22
 
   Was it you who gave me a C- when I asked you not to ask my girlfriend out? Sheesh, she was your student too. I am still upset, we need to settle it once for all.

Are you hornier as you grow wiser?

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oryx oryx rating
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3031 posts, 110 feedbacks, 211 points		 13-May-10, 09:44 AM (PST)
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24. "RE: Oryx, you sound like my ethics professor"
In response to message #23
 
Let's take this shit offline! Heheeheee!

But... if you must know, the C- grade was from your GF not giving me GFE! So there! She really loved you after all. But damn! She was super hot, you lucky boy, you!

Watch, Cons, my man.... let's see if we need to heat up another bag of popcorn here.

-Oryx

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tra4fun tra4fun rating
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4412 posts, 92 feedbacks, 147 points		 13-May-10, 09:58 AM (PST)
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25. "RE: Oryx, you sound like my ethics professor"
In response to message #24
 
why don't you two stay on topic or go get a room?

Your heart and soul is what I came for...

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