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Reading Topic #44186

Dellsnorto Dellsnorto rating
Member since 8-Nov-08
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05-Jul-10, 08:35 PM (PST)
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"How do you do LE check - part two"
 
   Thread locked while I was out gettin' me some. The topic of whether LE goes after clients has been discussed here on RB in the recent past. Very little evidence was cited then to support the idea that LE sets up sting operations in the Bay Area to ensnare clients, unless the prostitution is of the street action variety or aimed directly at snaring young girl seekers (ala "To Catch A Predator"). Amps get targeted, escorts may be targeted, street action seekers get targeted, but men seeking escorts online are not, to my knowledge, targeted for sting operations.

One of the main reasons that this rarely if ever occurs in the Bay Area is that to do so would result in otherwise law-abiding citizens in positions of power, authority and wealth being arrested for what almost everyone realizes is a largely victimless crime that will never be eradicated even if the resources were made available (which they won't be)and there was a large public outcry to do so (which there isn't).

Again, I'm not talking about how things work elsewhere, such as Texas or even Modest, I'm talking about right here in the Bay Area. And I'm not talking about street action Johns or men who pursue young girls; I'm only referring to the clients of escorts who advertise here on RB, CL, Eros Guide, etc. If anyone is directly aware of stings here in the Bay Area which have targeted the clients of escorts who advertise online, then please post that specific information. I'm saying that, if it occurs at all, it is a very rare event. Therefore, there is very little need to be fearful or paranoid about it happening to you. (but, shhh...please don't tell the girls 'cause it's always good to get a handful!)

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VonClitzentitz
Member since 10-Apr-07
4714 posts
05-Jul-10, 09:27 PM (PST)
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1. "RE: How do you do LE check - part two"
In response to message #0
 
   >Very little evidence was cited then to support the idea that LE sets up sting operations in the Bay Area to ensnare clients, unless...

This is, in a word, wrong. The deal the SFDA has with the org requires (!) a certain number of stings a year in order to supply the clients for the diversion program and running sting ads on the internet is one way they do it. Granted, with a little bit of circumspection it is easy not to fall into those traps and there are probably not too many but to categorically state that that is not what LE does is, simply put, wrong.

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Dellsnorto Dellsnorto rating
Member since 8-Nov-08
1365 posts, 39 feedbacks, 69 points
05-Jul-10, 11:07 PM (PST)
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2. "RE: How do you do LE check - part two"
In response to message #1
 
   "The deal the SFDA has with the org requires (!) a certain number of stings a year in order to supply the clients for the diversion program and running sting ads on the internet is one way they do it."

When you say "the org" are you talking about a specific AMP or all AMPS in S.F. or...? If so, please note that I'm asking about independent, non-AMP escorts who advertise online in such venues as RB, CL, Eros Guide, etc. Are you personally aware of sting operations targeted on clients of this specific group of providers? If so, please provide details.

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dong dong rating
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06-Jul-10, 01:08 AM (PST)
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3. "RE: How do you do LE check - part two"
In response to message #2
 

In this thred below, SFPD is saying they did ESCORT style internet stings --- but they were largely unsuccessful (per post by electra blue)


http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID8/31397.html

******
I also believe that several years ago - milpitas did an internet escort sting inviting johns to a days Inn hotel.. I searched the web a bit and could not find it... but I remember I was going to see a popular provider in milpitas days inn.. and when I got there .. there were 2 tow trucks at the back of the hotel, and what appeared to me to be a police van. and there were a couple of guys walking around the hotel with walkie talkies... so I went to the chevy's (i think its chevys) mexican restuarant in front of the days inn .. and sat at the bar .. and next to me were some plain clothes and a bail bonds person .. drinking cokes and eating lunch ... (there was a line if you wanted a table) --- later the busts were in the news...

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hadji1966 hadji1966 rating
Member since 27-Nov-08
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06-Jul-10, 03:19 AM (PST)
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4. "RE: How do you do LE check - part two"
In response to message #3
 
   I have a question regarding the culpability of a john. Is it true that the john escapes culpability if the escort initially quotes him a price? This was told me by a friend and I also read it on a Website that provided information and advice on how to see escorts. I heard that it can be construed as entrapment if the lady initially quotes the price.
Also, does law enforcement conduct stings at outcall locations?

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Dellsnorto Dellsnorto rating
Member since 8-Nov-08
1365 posts, 39 feedbacks, 69 points
06-Jul-10, 08:38 AM (PST)
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5. "RE: How do you do LE check - part two"
In response to message #3
 
   Please note, what I'm trying to ascertain here is if ONLINE ESCORT STINGS TARGETING CLIENTS (double underline, bold, italics, !!!, etc.) occurs in the Bay Area. The thread you link to is about a street action decoy sting. We all know that these occur from time to time, but this is NOT what I'm asking about. I'm saying that very rarely, if ever, does LE do online escort sting operations targeting male clients in the Bay Area. Over the years I've seen almost no evidence of this occurring, for the very obvious reason that in a blind sting operation of this nature, they'd be netting their fellow donut-eating brethren, their bosses, their bosses' bosses, etc. Does anyone have direct evidence that this assumption is not true?

Again, to be crystal clear: I'm not talking about somewhere else; I'm not talking about street action; I'm not talking about stings that target the girls; only about sting operations in the Bay Area that have targeted the clients of online escorts who are not employed by AMPS.

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dong dong rating
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06-Jul-10, 09:45 AM (PST)
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6. "RE: How do you do LE check - part two"
In response to message #5
 
read the thread .. it says the SFPD did the exact thing you say never HAPPENED .. I even told you which post it is ... believe what you want .. but the post quotes an SFPD officer talking about the very stings on johns via the internet ..

You seem to have a point of view that you are defending even when hit over the head with evidence to the contrary

dong

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Dellsnorto Dellsnorto rating
Member since 8-Nov-08
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06-Jul-10, 11:04 AM (PST)
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7. "RE: How do you do LE check - part two"
In response to message #6
 
   LAST EDITED ON 06-Jul-10 AT 11:19 AM (PST)
 
I did read the thread and the article that it linked to.

Here's the pertinent portion of the text of Electrablue's post to the thread to which you referred me:

"'The city's budget analyst recommended in his report that the police pursue more Internet stings in hopes of increasing the number of arrests and bringing the program back to firmer financial ground.

But there are both political and logistical issues with this approach. The Internet stings had very small returns, Ravella says; one August sting netted zero arrests. Even when men might respond to ads the police post on Craigslist, many of them simply fail to show up. San Francisco hotels were also unwilling to cooperate with the operations. As a result, Lieutenant Mary Petrie, who was then overseeing vice, put a halt to the web stings, Ravella says.

Targeting Craigslist also has no direct impact on neighborhoods, Ravella says. Given limited police resources, responding to neighborhood complaints comes first.(from pg. 5)'"

"If they decide to do more stings, we should all be on our toes. Sounds like we have a good record."

Let's highlight the pertinent portion of the above quote one more time: "As a result, Lieutenant Mary Petrie, who was then overseeing vice, put a halt to the web stings, Ravella says."

If you think that this constitutes direct evidence that Bay Area LE is currently conducting sting operations targeting the male clients of online escorts, then all I can say is that it is you, not me, that should reread the article and electrablue's comments re it. "Direct evidence" would be either your own personal experience of having been arrested in such a sting operation, an article from a news source documenting the arrest of individuals involved in stings of this type, or some other objectively verifiable info to this effect. I'm not talking about hearsay or speculation about what might occur, needs to occur, is planned for the future or anything else other than "just the facts, maam."

Additionally, I never stated that these stings never occur, only that in my, admittedly, limited experience they are very rare. The article cited above directly supports that contention. Moreover, what is of direct concern to RB hobbyists who utilize the services of online escorts is the question of whether or not such stings are currently occurring. The gist of the article reveals that, according to LE officials, any such internet sting operations would be considered a low priority, due to budgetary constraints and the fact that internet prostitution has no direct effect on neighborhoods.

Finally, I asked (not told) if anyone else had direct info to the contrary. Do you, Dong, have such direct info? If not, then kindly STFU.

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VonClitzentitz
Member since 10-Apr-07
4714 posts
06-Jul-10, 07:19 PM (PST)
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8. "RE: How do you do LE check - part two"
In response to message #7
 
   Sweetums, you don't want to listen, now do you? At the very top of even this thread you assert that "...men seeking escorts online are not, to (your) knowledge, targeted for sting operations." And that, mi amigo, is simply wrong. They are. Now, you may argue that it is rare and I would agree. But even street stings are rare compared to the overall volume of what is going on out there. Either can be fairly easily avoided but saying categorically they do not happen lulls the folks into a false sense of security. Also, whether the quoted SFPD department does not want to do them for one reason or another, they are obligated by their contract with the diversion program (aka John School) to do them. Make of this what you wish.

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Dellsnorto Dellsnorto rating
Member since 8-Nov-08
1365 posts, 39 feedbacks, 69 points
06-Jul-10, 09:12 PM (PST)
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10. "RE: How do you do LE check - part two"
In response to message #8
 
   LAST EDITED ON 06-Jul-10 AT 09:18 PM (PST)
 
"street stings are rare... but saying categorically they do not happen lulls the folks into a false sense of security."

Who said that? I'm just friggin' asking and stating what my experience has been, that's all.

"At the very top of even this thread you assert that "...men seeking escorts online are not, to (your) knowledge, targeted for sting operations." And that, mi amigo, is simply wrong. They are."

All right, I hear you saying it, now please provide the direct info that any objective reader would need in order to determine if your assertion is valid or merely your opinion disguised as fact. Again, I'm asking, not telling. I'm just stating my direct experience, noting my observations over the years and soliciting others' experience, direct knowledge and links to news articles, that's all. Just like I asked the Dongster, what has your experience been? Have you ever been targeted in an online escort sting operation or personally known someone who has? Do you have any references to recent news articles detailing the arrest of clients of online escorts? If not, then just say that you haven't or kindly...

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FriscoJackmoderator
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8210 posts
06-Jul-10, 07:59 PM (PST)
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9. "RE: How do you do LE check - part two"
In response to message #7
 
   LAST EDITED ON 06-Jul-10 AT 08:28 PM (PST)
 
I've been heavily involved in both the escort and street scenes in SF for many years. I'm with Dellsnorto on this one. I know of no confirmed cases where a guy has actually been busted in an internet sting.

I think his first paragraph in the top post in this thread sums it up very well.

One other thing to keep in mind is that it costs the SFPD zero to hint that they do so. They scare a few people off, with no cost whatsoever.

I would be grateful if anyone can send me any confirmable instance of this happening. I don't think it will happen, though.

_____________

FriscoJack

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Dellsnorto Dellsnorto rating
Member since 8-Nov-08
1365 posts, 39 feedbacks, 69 points
06-Jul-10, 09:22 PM (PST)
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11. "RE: How do you do LE check - part two"
In response to message #9
 
   "I would be grateful if anyone can send me any confirmable instance of this happening."

Ditto...seems like I need to boil my shit down to sentences that take up no more than fifteen words in order to be understood (oops, that's twenty-five words, so I've fucked myself again..grrr!)

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