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HighSteppermoderator HighStepper rating
Member since 26-Aug-06
9921 posts, 171 feedbacks, 316 points		 03-Apr-10, 06:45 AM (PST)
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"12 Step programs and Spirituality"
 
LAST EDITED ON 03-Apr-10 AT 11:22 PM (PST)
 
Over ten years ago I was busted on charges of prostitution and drug possession. Because society doesn’t tolerate recreational drug use like it does social drinking of alcohol one must be an “addict” to receive a diversion program rather than prison.

So I got a nudge from the judge and went to a NA 12 step program. From my experience, these programs are potentially a lot more than not using a particular substance. It is a process that people can use to live a better life without stress and resentments AND without having to "self medicate."

Two key points I would like to make are:

1. Some people can drink sociably and do drugs recreational with out serious concerns about addiction. The addict/alcoholic is not to question what these people do, they just must accept and understand that they can't do it.

2. One need not be addicted to a substance to benefit from these programs. Especially from studying the steps.

It was easy for me to practice abstinence while going through the program, so I was not struggling to achieve sobriety, but I did find serenity. And after all these years I still fairly regularly go to a step study meeting to maintain it and to help others find it. It is interesting that I see people in these programs who have sobriety, but they do not have serenity.

It is a profoundly spiritual program.

The program has been very beneficial to me in the hobby. Trying to live a life guided by the spiritual principles of honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness. Examining my motivations has kept me from predatory practices one often finds among some hobbyists. There are women in desperate situations and are subject to being easily taken advantage of. Taking ownership of my action and making amends when causing someone hurt.

I would invite and be interested to hear how others may have found serenity and how the spiritual principles have influence their life. Due to society’s uneducated attitude, feel free to use an alternate handle if there is the desire to maintain anonymity and keep the persona of your established handle.

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oralio oralio rating
Member since 1-Dec-03
40800 posts, 146 feedbacks, 241 points		 06-Apr-10, 10:47 PM (PST)
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1. "RE: 12 Step programs and Spirituality"
In response to message #0
 
Would the principles apply to the condition of "addiction" to prostitutes?

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HighSteppermoderator HighStepper rating
Member since 26-Aug-06
9921 posts, 171 feedbacks, 316 points		 07-Apr-10, 00:52 AM (PST)
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3. "RE: 12 Step programs and Spirituality"
In response to message #1
 
LAST EDITED ON 20-May-10 AT 03:54 AM (PST)
 
Why do I think you’re baiting me, lol. Never the less it’s a good discussion topic. “Addiction” to prostitutes to me is not the issue. It is how one fulfills that need. Is one lying, cheating, stealing, engaging in predatory practices? Is one acting purely on self interest without regard to how they may hurt others? Just because we are “whores” doesn’t mean we can't live a life of truth and honesty, guided by spiritual principles.

The key to addiction is if one's life is unmanageable. One is not taking care of important things in life, like working, paying bills, meeting important responsibilities, etc.

We live in a sexual repressive society that causes many healthy normal people to feel bad or ashamed about their sexual behaviors. For example there is/was “john school” operated by people that make a living from government funding to conduct classes for men caught in prostitution stings. I heard that they assert that men seek prostitutes because they are having problems with intimacy in a “normal” relationship. What a crock of BS.

I spent 30 years in 2 marriages in committed relationships (was not always sexually faithful, but was a good provider). Have 3 wonderful grown children. I’m now single and able to enjoy the wonders of beautiful, sensitive, and caring women - prostitutes.

I just have an extraordinary libido with kinky interest. As Anne McCaffrey, science fiction writer and author of the Dragon Riders series often states: “Trust all joy”

Many of us to varying degrees have what is called an obsessive, compulsive personality. I don't rent movies, I buy DVD's on sale and have in my library of movies I bought a year ago and haven't gotten around to viewing yet and oh yes an occasional purchase winds up being a duplicate of what I already have. Is this addictive/compulsive/obsessive behavior? Probably, but I'm not going to jail over it and I'm not endangering my health from it. And most importantly my life is not unmanageable because of it.

Edit: Corrected can to can't in doesn’t mean we can't live a life

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oralio oralio rating
Member since 1-Dec-03
40800 posts, 146 feedbacks, 241 points		 07-Apr-10, 05:58 AM (PST)
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5. "RE: 12 Step programs and Spirituality"
In response to message #3
 
LAST EDITED ON 07-Apr-10 AT 06:06 AM (PST)
 
I thought you might suspect that. But it was a sincere question. And I think a lot of men here might benefit from it. I also ask the question because I think, to a man, we would all deny addiction to prostitutes, usually by citing behaviors worse than hours, then using that to insist that we are "in control." Personally i don't think a dude has to be going bankrupt or destroy his marriage to be addicted to prostitutes, but that's just where I draw my line. My standard is -- if a guy seriously ever asks the question, then it's probably a problem.

I do the same with DVDs. As long as I'm not on amazon every day or every week, I think it's more a case of frivolous consumerism enabled by a certain degree of affluence such that we don't have to be too concerned about 60 bucks wasted in duplicate DVDs. Luckily, at least in my case, most DVDs I have are also desired by my close friends, so I have gifted some and simply just given away others. DVDs, not prostitutes.


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Porsche_911_Turbo Porsche_911_Turbo rating
Member since 20-Jul-03
310 posts, 3 feedbacks, 6 points		 06-Apr-10, 11:01 PM (PST)
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2. "RE: 12 Step programs and Spirituality"
In response to message #0
 
   If you desire to see escorts then going to the sex addict meetings is meaningless. The whole point of that group is to get away from these activities.

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HighSteppermoderator HighStepper rating
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9921 posts, 171 feedbacks, 316 points		 07-Apr-10, 00:55 AM (PST)
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4. "RE: 12 Step programs and Spirituality"
In response to message #2
 
THE MYTH OF SEX ADDICTION

http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/soaps/1296.html

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Porsche_911_Turbo Porsche_911_Turbo rating
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310 posts, 3 feedbacks, 6 points		 07-Apr-10, 11:57 AM (PST)
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6. "RE: 12 Step programs and Spirituality"
In response to message #4
 
   Well it is very obvious that some people do have a problem in regards to sex and whether it is an addiction or not is not the point, there is a problem, the label doesn't matter.

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HighSteppermoderator HighStepper rating
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9921 posts, 171 feedbacks, 316 points		 07-Apr-10, 02:20 PM (PST)
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7. "RE: 12 Step programs and Spirituality"
In response to message #6
 
>Well it is very obvious that some people do have a problem
>in regards to sex and whether it is an addiction or not is
>not the point, there is a problem, the label doesn't matter.

I agree with you that there can be a problem or problems. As mentioned in the referenced link:

* Poor decision-making: Even the healthiest people occasionally behave sexually in ways which later they regret.

* Poor impulse control: This, too, we all experience to one degree or another with money, food, TV, gossip, etc. Most of the time it is simply inconvenient; sometimes it gets out of hand.

* Obsessive-compulsive behavior: A small number of people think, feel, and do things that they don't want to do. Whether it's exhibitionism or hand washing, they are driven: the more they try to stop, the worse they feel, and the more they have to do it.

* Psychotic or sociopathic personalities: This small group of people has impaired reality-testing, and typically behaves with complete disregard for even the most basic social conventions.

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